2014-2015 MLB Offseason Moves Thread

[biggentleben]

First "big" trade of the offseason went down today with Adam Lind moving from the Blue Jays to the Brewers for Marco Estrada in a move that gives the Blue Jays more pitching and saves them roughly $3M.

 

MLB Trade Rumors also put up their predictions on the big free agents this year.  You can check it out here: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/2014-15-top-50-free-agents-with-predictions.html

 

BTW, if you haven't found it yet, MLB Trade Rumors started a new podcast, and I've found it to be an excellent news source thus far.  Check it out on iTunes or your podcast provider!

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

That was a good move for both teams, I think. Adam LaRoche would probably have been more expensive than Lind was, Toronto gets a little wiggle room to sign a player or two and added a pitcher. Toronto also added the OF J.B. Shuck on waivers - he's probably a 4th outfielder, realistically, but he's an upgrade over Mastro and Kenny Wilson.

[ashbury]

Lind fits my stereotype of The Brewers Player: big, slow, a liability on defense.  They think they're still in the AL and "if nothing else, we can DH him".

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

True - and for both teams' sake one would hope that they aren't done adding talent. Lind is actually best suited as a platoon with a guy that can hit lefties, but he's an upgrade over the Brewers 1B of the last few years regardless.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Cuddyer signed with the Mets

 

V-Mart re-signed with the Tigers

 

Fransisco Cervelli was traded to the Pirates (insurance in case Russell Martin goes elsewhere?)

 

The Tigers also traded prospect Devon Travis to get Anthony Gose, the guy that was a super prospect for several years 2010-2012 but has yet to reach his potential. He's going to play CF for Detroit ...

 

What will the next big move? Which big name Free Agent will be the next to sign? Nelson Cruz? Hanley? Pablo Sandoval?   

[biggentleben]

Deolis Guerra signed with Pittsburgh.  He shall now become a lights-out reliever or deliver 15-20 starts of amazing performance, as does every former Twin in Pittsburgh.

[Linus]

OK - I suggest that everyone post their smart alec former Twins pitchers that star in Pittsburgh comment within the next 24 hours so we can just move on and not experience those clever rejoinders for the rest of the off-season.

[kab21]

Stanton

Martin

Cuddyer

Vmart

 

We continue to see data points that teams have a ton of money to spend this offseason.  It will be interesting to see if this trend continues through the entire offseason.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Is $10MM a year for Billy Butler an overpay?

 

I think it's probably about right for a free agent acquisition. Not sure that Butler will live up to that number, but who knows?

[kab21]

Not much of an overpay but I'm not a fan of him.  Can't field, can't run and doesn't hit for much power.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Red Sox apparently are going to sign Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez, and in theory they are still in on Jon Lester... That's a lot of $$ invested in three players...

[USAFChief]

  On 11/24/2014 at 1:41 PM, Kirby_waved_at_me said:

Red Sox apparently are going to sign Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez, and in theory they are still in on Jon Lester... That's a lot of $$ invested in three players...

My bet is they sign one of Lester/Shields, then trade for Hamels.

 

I wonder what it's like to be a fan of a team that dreams big.

[beckmt]

Difference in TV contracts.  It makes a big difference.  Means Red Sox will have to trade an outfielder.  Hope the mid and small market teams make them pay by having to take the player for little or forcing them to eat a great deal of money.

[The Wise One]

357 million in revenue vs 221 million. I would think Boston could have a few more 20 million a year contracts than the Twins

[USAFChief]

I think the difference is about more than just money.

[big dog]

  On 11/25/2014 at 12:14 PM, USAFChief said:

I think the difference is about more than just money.

I do too, but the money is what makes it happen.  Certainly in my own life it is clear that having money is a necessary but not sufficient condition to spending money.  Would I spend it?  I don't know, but I'd like to have an extra $150 million a year as an experiment to see what I would do.  It would be interesting.

[TheLeviathan]

  On 11/25/2014 at 12:14 PM, USAFChief said:

I think the difference is about more than just money.

 

I get what you're saying Chief and I agree that even if you handed the Twins a 360M pot of revenue you still wouldn't see it spent like this...but all that said, that's a huge advantage to have.  One the Twins would be out of their minds to try and match at 60% of the revenue the Red Sox make.

 

It's why I'm so irked by the way baseball handles revenues and the wild imbalances it can cause.

[nicksaviking]

Let the Red Sox blow their payroll.  They can spend big, but it's not unlimited and they still only get 25 roster spots, just like everyone else.

 

I thought they learned their lesson four years ago and that's why they got rid of all their albatross contracts and started a bit of a youth movement.  Rameriz is already on his retirement march and does anyone really think that a 300 lb 3B is going to last very long?  He's a good hitter, but he's not an elite hitter, it's almost like paying a fat guy top money was such a fun idea that team's were willing to overpay just for the novelty of it. 

 

Ha, I hope they do sign Lester or Shields or better yet both!  Those guys have way more innings on their arms than the normal pitcher in his early 30's.  They may be 30 and 32 respectively but their arms are about 35 and 37. 

[Mike Sixel]

They'll find a way to deal Napoli and Cespedes, and maybe another player. I'd guess the payroll is barely up right now.

 

And, if they have the money, what else should they do with it? I do think they overpaid for both, and I don't love either signing.....but the alternative is to pocket the money. Rather than wait for all their youth to pan out, they are going to sign guys they think are MLB players with the giant piles of money they have at their disposal.

[Linus]

Its more than the money, its decline phase players.  Everyone has a payroll limit - Boston's just a lot bigger than ours and it will end up paying for players that are no good at some point.  Perhaps they think they can snooker the Dodgers into cleaning up their mess again in a couple years....

 

That's the odd thing about free agency - you pay the most for them just after they've had their best years.

[Mike Sixel]

Every team pays for decline phase, or doesn't every have a player over 32 or so on their roster. It is the market all MLB plays in. 

 

Or, they'll just eat the money, or they revenue will keep climbing, or they'll trade them off, or, the decline won't be awful. Fans tend to over estimate how "crippling" contracts are (and I am not alone in that opinion, the fangaphs guys post that all the time).

[USAFChief]

  On 11/25/2014 at 5:31 PM, TheLeviathan said:

I get what you're saying Chief and I agree that even if you handed the Twins a 360M pot of revenue you still wouldn't see it spent like this...but all that said, that's a huge advantage to have.  One the Twins would be out of their minds to try and match at 60% of the revenue the Red Sox make.

 

It's why I'm so irked by the way baseball handles revenues and the wild imbalances it can cause.

 I think it's more than just the money...

 

One team looks at the situation and tries to figure out how to get better, immediately.  One team wants to "build this thing the right way."  

 

One team looks for answers.  One looks for excuses.  One looks to find ways to get it done, one seems to look for reasons it can't.

 

One team isn't afraid to make big moves, which might mean big mistakes.  One team seems to look first at the downside of any potential move.

 

One team tries to make the payroll fit the players it needs.  One tries to make the players fit the payroll it wants.

[jokin]

  On 11/26/2014 at 12:24 AM, USAFChief said:

 I think it's more than just the money...

 

One team looks at the situation and tries to figure out how to get better, immediately.  One team wants to "build this thing the right way."  

 

One team looks for answers.  One looks for excuses.  One looks to find ways to get it done, one seems to look for reasons it can't.

 

One team isn't afraid to make big moves, which might mean big mistakes.  One team seems to look first at the downside of any potential move.

 

One team tries to make the payroll fit the players it needs.  One tries to make the players fit the payroll it wants.

 

Twins Daily post-  Hall of Fame nominee http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/E9d_USAF_CMSAF.svg/72px-E9d_USAF_CMSAF.svg.png

[TheLeviathan]

  On 11/26/2014 at 12:24 AM, USAFChief said:

 I think it's more than just the money...

 

One team looks at the situation and tries to figure out how to get better, immediately.  One team wants to "build this thing the right way."  

 

I don't disagree with you about the mindset, I really don't and my posts in the past more than back that up.  On the other hand, I'm not blind to the realities of baseball finances.  The truth is that while I want the Twins to have a more aggressive mindset, I'm not so delusional as to think they can hang with some teams.  The media revenues are just ridiculously out of balance.

 

It's why I wish all sports had a salary floor and a salary cap with more shared revenues.

[USAFChief]

  On 11/26/2014 at 3:24 AM, TheLeviathan said:

I don't disagree with you about the mindset, I really don't and my posts in the past more than back that up.  On the other hand, I'm not blind to the realities of baseball finances.  The truth is that while I want the Twins to have a more aggressive mindset, I'm not so delusional as to think they can hang with some teams.  The media revenues are just ridiculously out of balance.

 

It's why I wish all sports had a salary floor and a salary cap with more shared revenues.

They are at a significant disadvantage no doubt.

 

Heck, for the record, I don't even like the Sandoval signing. What I do like is the "lets address issues" mindset.

[jokin]

  On 11/26/2014 at 3:24 AM, TheLeviathan said:

I don't disagree with you about the mindset, I really don't and my posts in the past more than back that up.  On the other hand, I'm not blind to the realities of baseball finances.  The truth is that while I want the Twins to have a more aggressive mindset, I'm not so delusional as to think they can hang with some teams.  The media revenues are just ridiculously out of balance.

 

It's why I wish all sports had a salary floor and a salary cap with more shared revenues.

 

Even without a cap, many small and mid-market teams have adapted, thrived, and not only hung with their big market competitors, but ran circles around them at times (they've been either "aggressive", just plain smart and disciplined, or all of the above), while many teams with the unlimited budgets we've seen fail more than they succeed.

[TheLeviathan]

  On 11/26/2014 at 3:42 AM, jokin said:

Even without a cap, many small and mid-market teams have adapted, thrived, and not only hung with their big market competitors, but ran circles around them at times (they've been either "aggressive", just plain smart and disciplined, or all of the above), while many teams with the unlimited budgets we've seen fail more than they succeed.

 

And none of that has anything to do with this conversation.  We're talking within the context of a team spending 40M on two players this offseason.  I agree with Chief about the mindset of the Red Sox and others being something to envy.

 

The reality, on the other hand, is that the 40M per year they just spent on those players is only a quarter of the revenue difference between the two teams.  Meaning they could do this with 6 more players of this same value before just breaking even with where the Twins are.  That's a reality that is unfair to many teams regardless of their success and the truth is (as many here are prone to advocate) - spending does make a difference and there is a ridiculous spending advantage at play here.  That shouldn't stop the Twins from a more aggressive mindset, but it's certainly a limitation on it relative to a team like the Red Sox.

[jokin]

  On 11/26/2014 at 3:55 AM, TheLeviathan said:

And none of that has anything to do with this conversation.  We're talking within the context of a team spending 40M on two players this offseason.  I agree with Chief about the mindset of the Red Sox and others being something to envy.

 

The reality, on the other hand, is that the 40M per year they just spent on those players is only a quarter of the revenue difference between the two teams.  Meaning they could do this with 6 more players of this same value before just breaking even with where the Twins are.  That's a reality that is unfair to many teams regardless of their success and the truth is (as many here are prone to advocate) - spending does make a difference and there is a ridiculous spending advantage at play here.  That shouldn't stop the Twins from a more aggressive mindset, but it's certainly a limitation on it relative to a team like the Red Sox.

 

You say ridiculous, and I say how many titles does the new Dodger ownership have on their mantle? The Dodgers, new and old owners, last won the Series in '88. And if it wasn't for the Dodgers who bailed them out somewhat, the Red Sox would still be buried in the payroll hole of their own making.  And the Phillies and Yankees are both a mess, the Tigers appear to soon be on the same type of bad contract precipice.  The Angels have one title in their history, in 2002.  The Rangers and Dodgers have both been on the brink of bankruptcy.

 

You say it's unfair, and I say life is also unfair.  The Twins asked the public to make things less unfair, I wish they would match the commitment of the public to lessenng that unfairness by matching their own internal commitment to the same goal.

[TheLeviathan]

  On 11/26/2014 at 4:27 AM, jokin said:

You say ridiculous, and I say how many titles does the new Dodger ownership have on their mantle? 

 

I said a ridiculous spending advantage and that is pretty much indisputable.  How someone translates that spending into victories is irrelevant to this discussion and to my point.

[biggentleben]

Yasmani Tomas signs for 6 years, $68.5M with the Diamondbacks.  Way below the 7/$100M that he was expected to get by many pundits. Ben Badler was on the BA podcast really talking down Tomas and talking up a few other Cuban guys, specifically Yoan Moncada.