Article: Ron Gardenhire Out As Twins Manager

[jokin]

This move also makes the reams of digital ink we used assessing potential rosters for next years Twins nothing but mere vapor on the inter web. Once a new manager is named, we have to start all over. Also, as at least one other poster mentioned, this is terrible news for 3rd string catchers. I would imagine several have their agents on the phone as we type!

 

Yeah.  The personnel moves made this year, both short- and intermediate-term, plus, as La Bombo pointed out in the previous post, TR's mea culpa on his "Gardy vote of confidence" on August 21, indicate that Ryan had his hand forced to make these necessary changes by ownership- he seems to have had a bit of a tin ear at the level of the looming crisis in revenue-stream collapse- a 30% drop in ticket sales and collapsing media ratings means business as usual was not an option.  I mean... why the insistence on bringing back Florimon to start at SS no matter how obvious it was that he wasn't up to the job with not one, but two younger, better alternatives at the ready?;  placement on the roster of Bartlett, Guerrier and Kubel; Suzuki v Pinto for PT; the manager and his coaches all-but-in-revolt over their demands, insisting that Ryan up his 11th hour offer to extening Suzuki; and why wasn't the whole month of September better orchestrated as a month long tryout for 2015 roster spots? 

Edited September 29, 2014 by jokin

[Yoshii]

Who is Ron Gardenhire?

[Platoon]

Not posts ... threads, with multiple posts

I stand corrected. And humbly beg forgiveness! :)

[ashbury]

This move also makes the reams of digital ink we used assessing potential rosters for next years Twins nothing but mere vapor on the inter web.

Probably the biggest tragedy in this whole sorry mess.

[Platoon]

I think the trib comments tend to lean more towards poisonous bile than snark (or at least the last time I read them, maybe they are much more thoughtful, civil, and rational now).

Not at all.... Of the 500 plus, 3/4 will call for joe makers release or trade. You are context, they tend to go far beyond snark

[Craig Arko]

The decision may have been somewhat surprising, but what isn't surprising is the graciousness and class shown by Gardy, Ryan, and the organization.

I can think of a few members of the fan base who could learn something from this. No names though, out of respect for the organization's involved.

[Platoon]

FSN has a show on right now dealing with Gardy!

[Puckett34]

It's weird talking about this.  Gardy has been manager of the Twins for nearly half of my lifetime.  I liked Gardy.  More as a person and less so as a manager.  He was a constant figure over the past 13 years. This was necessary, but I was hoping that this was going to be a Kelly to Gardy type handoff.  And maybe it is.  I feel like this team is nearing the corner to be turned to contention again.  Well, at least the offense is. Godspeed Ron Gardenhire.

[LaBombo]

Probably the biggest tragedy in this whole sorry mess.

A complement to all Twins figures involved....

[jokin]

From what it looks like so far,  the Gardy/coaches PC was the exact opposite of the Vikings AP public relations train wreck.  Everybody got something good out of it.

 

1.The Pohlads got a ton of free 'We know it's messed up and we're fixing it' PR with the dramatic firing of a relatively popular manager of a team that hasn't fired a manager since Reagan was president.

 

2. Ryan got to advance the company theme of hope and change, but got to avoid being the villain with the thinly veiled admission it wasn't his call with the 'It was a mistake to say he'd be back; I have bosses' remark.

 

 

 

 

 

Jimmy P finally shows up back in town, to provide some push-back to the TR push-back.  Dave St Pete piles on, apparently with something plumbing-related.

 

 

Mike Berardino

‏@MikeBerardino

Jim Pohlad says "virtually zero" when asked about business side impacting this decision.

St. Peter says it "wasn't a specific filter."

 

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Edited September 30, 2014 by jokin

[LaBombo]

It's weird talking about this.  Gardy has been manager of the Twins for nearly half of my lifetime.  I liked Gardy.  More as a person and less so as a manager.  He was a constant figure over the past 13 years. This was necessary, but I was hoping that this was going to be a Kelly to Gardy type handoff.  And maybe it is.  I feel like this team is nearing the corner to be turned to contention again.  Well, at least the offense is. Godspeed Ron Gardenhire.

Since my guess on a replacement is already pretty worthless because the Gardy firing caught me totally by surprise, I'll skip it.

 

Instead I'll mention that the KFAN guy who sounds like Andre the Giant in The Princess Bride, Meathead or something like that, says that the Twins source for his Saturday tweet about Gardy being out also told him that Molitor is already the new guy.  Fwiw.  Nm (not much).

[jokin]

It's weird talking about this.  Gardy has been manager of the Twins for nearly half of my lifetime.  I liked Gardy.  More as a person and less so as a manager.  He was a constant figure over the past 13 years. This was necessary, but I was hoping that this was going to be a Kelly to Gardy type handoff.  And maybe it is.  I feel like this team is nearing the corner to be turned to contention again.  Well, at least the offense is. Godspeed Ron Gardenhire.

 

KSTP's Joe Schmit brought up an interesting point on his sportscast tonight,  saying something about time to end the "handoff" system, particularly when the system isn't working, even though he acknowledged this corner-turning you speak of.

 

His comments essentially went, "It's time for a sweeping change, and the best way to do that is to install a much different, much younger point of view.  The Twins have a wealth of young talent almost ready to contribute, the last time the Twins had an opportunity just like this one was 1986, the Twins in that era were unafraid to install a 32-year old GM in Andy MacPhail, and a 36-year old manager in Tom Kelly.  And recognizing the team's growing diversity, and more impact Latin players on the way, it's incumbent on the Twins to hire a Latin coach."

Edited September 30, 2014 by jokin

[jokin]

Since my guess on a replacement is already pretty worthless because the Gardy firing caught me totally by surprise, I'll skip it.

 

Instead I'll mention that the KFAN guy who sounds like Andre the Giant in The Princess Bride, Meathead or something like that, says that the Twins source for his Saturday tweet about Gardy being out also told him that Molitor is already the new guy.  Fwiw.  Nm (not much).

 

I hope Joe Schmit is closer to the truth than "Meathead".

[Puckett34]

Since my guess on a replacement is already pretty worthless because the Gardy firing caught me totally by surprise, I'll skip it.

 

Instead I'll mention that the KFAN guy who sounds like Andre the Giant in The Princess Bride, Meathead or something like that, says that the Twins source for his Saturday tweet about Gardy being out also told him that Molitor is already the new guy.  Fwiw.  Nm (not much).

 

 

KSTP's Joe Schmit brought up an interesting point on his sportscast tonight,  saying something about time to end the "handoff" system, particularly when the system isn't working, even though he acknowledged this corner-turning you speak of.

 

His comments essentially went, "It's time for a sweeping change, and the best way to do that is to install a much different, much younger point of view.  The Twins have a wealth of young talent almost ready to contribute, the last time the Twins had an opportunity just like this one was 1986, the Twins in that era were unafraid to install a 32-year old GM in Andy MacPhail, and a 36-year old manger in Tom Kelly.  And recognizing the team's growing diversity, and more impact Latin players on the way, it's incumbent on the Twins to hire a Latin coach."

I guess I didn't mean I wanted it to be an exact same scenario as the Kelly-Gardy "handoff".  What I meant was I had hoped that Gardy would get this team close to or over .500, ala Kelly in 2001 and "handoff" a solid team to the new manager.  Whomever that new manager may be, in house or external hire.  And Gardy would ride off into the sunset and do some spring training/broadcasting part time stuff for the Twins as he enjoys retirement.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Puckett34

[LaBombo]

Jimmy P finally shows up back in town, to provide some push-back to the TR push-back.  Dave St Pete piles on, apparently with something plumbing-related.

 

I hope Joe Schmit is closer to the truth than "Meathead".

You're way ahead of me on this.  Your first point is a welcome update worthy of your TD company organizational structure chart moniker.  Stepping off a Gulfstream after the opening round of a quarter-billion dollar tax fraud trial with a defense that appears to some as 'TurboTax failed to AutoUpdate'  or 'an airedale ate my tax attorney's hard drive' is always bad PR, but especially on a day like today.

 

And if you have time, can you follow up on the Joe Schmit take on the replacement?  My limited google skills came up with obscure Eagles references and a Youtube video of T.B. Schmit's hit "So much in love", a song that dates back to my early to late-middle adult youth.

 

That song used to show up fairly often in the musical selections of friends' and acquaintances' weddings.  Paid for a nice stereo for the Honda by always betting the drunken reception 'under' for how many months such a marriage in question would last.  Not cynical, just lucky with odds sometimes.

[DocBauer]

I'm very sad.

 

And I'm also content, happy and excited.

 

I'm a big Gardy fan and supporter. I think he's a good guy, a good baseball man, and has done a great job for the Twins organization. I will miss him being the team leader, wish him the very best in whatever he chooses to do, and hope that if/when he is done managing he will take up a position with the organization. Personally, I think he could also could be entertaining on broadcasts as well. Forget the last 4 years, time and reflection will show it wasn't all his fault, and he did a great job in his career.

 

I'm also excited because I think a page is being turned, and it's time to move on and forward.

 

I didn't see the pressed, but hats off to all involved from what I have read. Sounds like more class from a classy organization.

 

As to the coaches, my understanding is they were all on 1 year deals. So it's not so much they are fired, but are not being brought back with Gardy's dismissal. Which leaves them to be brought on board by the new skipper, seek other jobs, and possibly resigned within the organization. I bet a couple are back.

 

I don't think staying internal is a bad thing at all! There's been much speculation as to Mauer and Mientkiewicz as possibles. Especially with a quality bench coach to offer advice, call me intrigued. They are Twins organization guys, but also young enough for different ideas and perspectives. As a bonus, both are familiar with most, if not all, the Twins young upcoming talent. I don't think that is a little thing. TK was in the same position. So was Gardenhire. I think there's something to be said for being familiar with these kids as they arrive.

 

Outside the organization, I confess I don't know a lot about Dave Martinez other than as a solid ballplayer. But I've heard a lot of good reports in him as a coach and future manager candidate. And I have to say, I like that he's been Maddon's right hand man with the Rays.

[LaBombo]

A complement to all Twins figures involved....

Oops.  It was meant as a compliment, not a wish for the opening of a door to a Scottie Ullger returning to complement the coaching staff.

[jokin]

Oops.  It was meant as a compliment, not a wish for the opening of a door to a Scottie Ullger returning to complement the coaching staff.

 

Which brings up a cogent point, based on today's moves, Joe Vavra's kids have to be thinking about the somewhat apocryphal quote, attributed to an IBM executive, as Microsoft and Apple began eclipsing the business model of the once-vernable comapny:

 

 

"The future isn't what it used to be !"

Edited September 30, 2014 by jokin

[mattjc1983]

This is sort of a dual-response to this article and Nick Nelson's blog post later tonight.  Nick commented on how the 2004 ALDS playoff loss (I think he was referring to Game 2 in which the Twins lost in extras) resulted in what was really his first blog post about the Twins.

 

It was interesting to read how he got his start.  I remember that playoff game well, I was a senior in college but didn't have television; i was at the college library watching the game via Yahoo gamecast.  One thing that sticks out to me about that game was that it was Joe Nathan before we had all seen just how unreliable he could be in true pressure situations, so there really was no questioning Gardy, at least not when he initially brought him out  True, Nathan's career postseason numbers were already terrible (.1 IP, 4 hits, 1 BB, 3 ER the previous year in SF) but .1 innings does not a career make. 

 

However, trotting him out over and over over the next 5 years for playoff failure after playoff failure was classic Gardy, an approach that has apparently rubbed off on Brad "Joe's the Closer" Ausmus.

 

In my opinion, with a career postseason ERA of 9 and WHIP of 2.44, and assuming he retires after next year, Nathan would basically have to pitch several absolutely perfect innings of postseason relief over the next 2 seasons for HOF voters who value performance in high-leverage situations to give him serious HOF consideration.

 

I digress, but my point is that trotting Nathan out in the playoffs all those years, trotting Capps out over and over in 2011 no matter how bad he pitched, and like decisions were the kind of thing that really wears on fans.  Now that the deed is actually done I'm actually a bit sad, reflecting on how long Gardy has actually been with this organization as a coach, but I still feel it had to be done.  Not that anybody would have really bought it, but I guess I'm just surprised he and Terry didn't try the resignation route, making it much easier to allow Gardy to take a position elsewhere in the org, although maybe they mutually agreed that it would be good to give the more rabid Twins fans some blood.

[PseudoSABR]

I just saw the press conference (via strib) and I found it striking that Gardy was there for his own firing.  Honestly, he acted classy, and I feel oddly proud.  Even TR with all his uppity shrwed stubborness got vulnerable calling Gardy a brother, admitting so how obviously this was the most difficult decision of his baseball career.  Yeah, I feel oddly kinda proud--yes, undeserved and stupid, but it's difficult to not root for these people.

[Cm1]

I haven't been able to follow the Twins in several years. It's the pitching. I don't care whose fault it is, we haven't had any pitching. I also find Joe Mauer depressing. Now Kennys should take Joes spot. I watched maybe 3 hours of spring training ball and in it I saw the worst first base play I've seen ever. Joe slowly, cartoonishly stumbled over his mitt and fell flat on his face. Most catchers, especially catchers that hit, take a day off at first once in a while. Obviously Joe never had to. But it's Joes bat that's depressing. Not only does he leave runners in scoring position, but he doesn't seem to understand a fundamental of hitting. It makes some sense, he never played hockey and probably doesn't golf much? Because those swings would teach him all he needs to know about the torque his swing doesn't have. I had the same problem.

 

This season there were a few players who were actually worth watching. But my sense is Terry is trying to set up another extended 80-90 win run, which is great, but it won't start for another season or two. Even so, Terry hasn't shown a great ability to find and develop pitching. Why is it that other organizations do that? Why can we all name them? What is it about those organizations that they always seem to be producing pitchers?

 

Thanks for the memories Gardy.

[Platoon]

 

 

"I digress, but my point is that trotting Nathan out in the playoffs all those years, trotting Capps out over and over"

 

And that might be why Gardy needs a veteran "stable team" to manage in the future. He tends to manage by rote. In fact he has at mumerous times mentioned that his players, especially his bull pen, knows there roll. I also think this "manage by rote" is the basis of his in game decisions, like bunting and a pretty inflexible pitch count.

 

But when you are dealing with the upcoming Twins roster, flexibility will be necessary. Gardy might be, probably is, a good manager. But flexibility is really not one of his attributes.

[stringer bell]

Not many managers participate in the news conference announcing that they've been fired. There is an upside to the loyalty of the organization. The other side of that has been beaten to death at TD and I believe most of that as well.

 

I'll miss Gardy. Like most ex-presidents, we'll realize he wasn't as clueless as he seemed to be when he was in charge.

 

Replacements: I think the two in-house guys, Steinbach and Molitor, have spent enough time outside the organization that the are not Twins Guys through and through, as a promotion of someone like Ulger or Ray Smith would be.

 

I am fine with going outside the organization, though. It is time. Either the manager or one or two of his staff need to be better able to reach the growing Hispanic portion of this club.

[Otto von Ballpark]

This is sort of a dual-response to this article and Nick Nelson's blog post later tonight.  Nick commented on how the 2004 ALDS playoff loss (I think he was referring to Game 2 in which the Twins lost in extras) resulted in what was really his first blog post about the Twins.

 

It was interesting to read how he got his start.  I remember that playoff game well, I was a senior in college but didn't have television; i was at the college library watching the game via Yahoo gamecast.  One thing that sticks out to me about that game was that it was Joe Nathan before we had all seen just how unreliable he could be in true pressure situations, so there really was no questioning Gardy, at least not when he initially brought him out  True, Nathan's career postseason numbers were already terrible (.1 IP, 4 hits, 1 BB, 3 ER the previous year in SF) but .1 innings does not a career make. 

 

However, trotting him out over and over over the next 5 years for playoff failure after playoff failure was classic Gardy, an approach that has apparently rubbed off on Brad "Joe's the Closer" Ausmus.

Not to get too far off-topic, but this is a fairly gross mischaracterization.

 

Nathan's game 2 performances in 2004 and 2009 were the only two playoff leads he ever blew.  And the first of those, in 2004, he only blew it AFTER he had already thrown 2.1 shutout innings in extras.  (And that's on Gardy -- when your closer is at 42 pitches, having just walked the #9 hitter on four straight balls, with the top of the order due up to face him a second time -- it's time to make a move.  Add in another 4 pitch walk to the leadoff hitter and it was gross negligence to leave him in to face A-Rod again.)

 

Nathan did allow inherited insurance runs to score in 2006 and 2009, but by those points, those series were more or less lost already.

 

He has certainly struggled this year, but he is fairly far down the list for reasons the Twins lost so many playoff games/series.