Article: If I Owned the Twins

[Steven Buhr]

I’ve been a bit out of touch with Twinsville for a couple of weeks as I’ve had some business travel and other non-Twins-related matters to occupy most of my time.

 

I did catch up a bit on my Twins reading in the past day or so, however, and – well – let’s just say I’ve been much more interested in the writing about the Twins than I have been with what’s transpired on the field with the Twins.I read the columns by the Minneapolis Star-Tribune’s baseball writers and columnists recently, in which they were asked to share their ideas concerning what the Twins need to do to “fix” the sorry state of affairs at Target Field.

 

Jim Souhan believes manager Ron Gardenhire has to go.

 

Patrick Reusse believes the Twins need coaches who relate better to the increasing (and increasingly important) Latino segment of their roster.

 

LaVelle E. Neal wants the Twins to do whatever it takes to add an “ace” at the top of their rotation.

 

Phil Miller says, as hard as it may be to do so, the answer is patience, as we await the imminent arrival of some outstanding young prospects.

 

Their respective articles reflect opinions I think we’ve all heard voiced many times as this fourth consecutive 90-loss season has been completing its death spiral.

 

The only near unanimous opinion is, as TwinsDaily’s Nick Nelson penned this week, “The Twins Have a Problem.”

 

After doing all that reading, I paused and contemplated what it must be like right now to be Jim Pohlad.

 

I honestly believe he’s embarrassed by what his team has become – an irrelevant organization. The Twins are irrelevant among their MLB brethren. They are irrelevant within the Minnesota professional sports scene.

 

http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/PohladRyanStPeter.jpg

Owner Jim Pohlad, GM Terry Ryan and President Dave St. Peter (photo: SD Buhr)

Say what you will about the Pohlad family, they did not get to where they are in life by being irrelevant.

 

I began to wonder what was going through the Twins’ owner’s mind these days as he prepares for, perhaps, the most difficult offseason since the passing of his father, Carl. Maybe Jim is asking himself, “WWCD?” What Would Carl Do?

 

Naturally, that led me to ponder what I would do if I were in Pohlad’s shoes. What steps would I take to make sure I never, ever, felt like this going in to an offseason again.

 

One awful season was an unpleasant aberration. Two was uncomfortable. Three was painful. Four is… I don’t even know, but you wouldn’t want to be around me much if I owned a team with the record of abject failure that the Twins have had so far this decade.

 

I thought all four of the Strib’s writers had good thoughts. I also believe there isn’t a single one of those ideas that would satisfy me if I owned the Twins.

 

If the four Strib guys worked for me and came to my office with those ideas, here’s what I’d say:

 

I think you’ve all made valid points. But here’s my problem.

 

Patience, Phil? I’ve been patient for three years. Don’t talk to me about prospects. Until they prove themselves at Target Field, those guys are nothing but business assets. They represent fluxuating inventory with short shelf lives. You’re not asking me to be patient, you’re asking me to be comatose.

 

You want me to buy (in money or prospects) an ‘ace,’ LaVelle. Great idea. I’ve been telling my General Manager to feel free to spend more money on whatever he thinks will improve this team. But we can’t force players to sign with us and pretty much every long term, big money, contract for an ‘ace’ that has been signed has turned out to be a bad contract for the team. And I may not be in love with prospects, but I’m not going to give them away in return for an aging pitcher who my stat buddies tell me has seen his best days behind him. If my GM can find an ‘ace’ available on the market who is willing to come to our town or one with enough tread on the tire left to be counted on for a few years of ace-hood that’s available for any trade even close to reasonable, we’ll go get him.

 

Jim, I really don’t think any manager in history could have won half his games the past four years with the collection of has-beens, wanna-bes and never-weres wearing a Twins uniform, so if you really believe firing Ron Gardenhire is going to fix things, you know a lot less about baseball than most baseball fans. And that’s a tough bar to get under.

 

Pat, same for you. I think it makes a lot of sense to have more of a Latin-American presence in the clubhouse. But do you think having a dozen Latino coaches would make this team a winner? I don’t. By the way, between the four of you guys, there must be about a zillion years of covering baseball between you, right? How’s your Spanish? I think every coach in our organization should learn Spanish, but I also think every media member who covers baseball should, too, and until you do, you’ve got very little room to criticize.

 

The problem is that none of your ideas will fix things. Not if that’s all we do.

 

Our fans aren’t stupid enough to believe that any one player, no matter how good he is, will turn this team in to a contender. Not if he’s a current Tigers ace, LaVelle, and not if he’s a near-certain future Hall of Fame center fielder who hasn’t completed a full game (much less a season) above high-A ball, Phil.

 

Many of them want Gardy gone. I understand that. But even the Gardy haters don’t really believe replacing him will turn a 90-loss team in to a 90-win team. Replacing even an unpopular manager won’t put butts back in the seats and replacing his staff with five guys from Venezuela won’t, either.

 

So, no, we’re not going to do a single one of these things.

 

We’re going to do all of them.

 

And more.

 

That's when I would thank that Strib guys for their time, give them some drink tickets and send them to Hrbeks for a couple of refreshments while I talk to my President and General Manager.

 

With Dave St. Peter and Terry Ryan in my offices, here's what I lay out for them.

 

Gentlemen, the good news for you is that neither of you are fired. Yet.

 

But I’m tired of losing. I’m tired of losing games and I’m tired of losing fans. And you two may think I don’t know crap about baseball, but I suspect that just maybe losing games and losing fans might be related.

 

Terry, I tried to tell you a year ago that I was tired of people telling me I’m cheap and won’t spend money for top talent. Some bozo on the internet even made up a parable about it. I want you to go read it and then, Terry, use the damn ladder!

 

I’ve got a list of the top 20 starting pitchers in baseball, ranked by some goofy thing called WAR. By the date season tickets have to be renewed, one of those guys is going to be working for me, Terry – or you won’t be. Do we understand one another?

 

Speaking of people working for me, you’re going to go tell Ron Gardenhire that he doesn’t. At least not as my manager.

 

Gardy’s a helluva guy and he’s had some good days as our manager. We’ll give him a nice watch, but I don’t believe he’s the guy to lead this team for the next 10 years and neither do our fans. Who you hire is your business. I’m just telling you who you’re going to fire.

 

I take that back, I am going to tell you a little bit about who you’re going to hire.

 

When spring training opens, I want at least two Latino members on the bench staff.

 

I mean it, Terry. And I’m not talking about a couple guys who took Spanish class in junior high. I’m going to send Tony Oliva to talk to whoever you hire and they’d better be able to keep up with him in a conversation.

 

Every company in every industry in this country has been getting on the diversity bandwagon for years. Everyone figured out long ago that having management that can communicate in Spanish is critical to attracting and retaining top Spanish speaking employees. I don’t know why you haven’t figured this out on your own yet, but now I’m telling you.

 

One more thing, Terry.

 

If they’re healthy, Alex Meyer, Miguel Sano and Byron Buxton will open 2015 with the Twins. How do I know? I heard all about it in the giant advertising campaign that St. Peter and the marketing folks are putting together the moment he walks out of this meeting. Right Dave?

 

That ad is going to run on the local affiliate carrying the Super Bowl. I want everyone in town talking about the Twins the next day and I want them buying tickets. Lots of tickets.

 

Dave, I keep reading about how attendance is going to drop next year. I’m telling you that it won’t. If it does, the attendance in your office will drop by one.

 

Our season ticket holders have been paying Major League prices for minor league performance for four years. I don’t care how far you have to slash prices, you put butts in the seats.

 

Next summer, people may call us crazy for what we’ve done. They may say we’ve lost our minds. But if they’re still saying the Twins are irrelevant, you two will not be calling me your boss.

 

Give my love to your families.

 

And then I think I'd take a very long cruise around the world on a very large boat and look forward to seeing what my team looked like when I got back.

 

Click here to view the article

[glunn]

This is a very interesting article that I am sure will provoke some interesting responses.

 

Thanks, SD.

[Rosterman]

The joy of 20 starters being available, not every one will get a huge contract because the money is not there. And let's hope Correia is not on that list. The return of Liriano, under a new pitching coach. Interesting thought. Bring back Lohse. As an after thought and because you found loose change in the office davenport, you sign Slowey. 

 

Wait, maybe better choices than former Twins.

 

And who says we have to keep Nolasco and his salary. And let's write Pelfrey off out of this season's profits.

[DocBauer]

I'm very sorry SD, but I'm afraid we think along almost the exact same lines! Lol

 

NOT tooting my own horn, but I've been calling for a quality Latin/Latino (whichever) coach added to the staff since the last "shakeup". With the preponderance of young Latin players on the roster, rising quickly through the system, it not only makes sense, it's becoming a MUST. The Twins seem to go through great pains to assist the young prospects with Latin coaches/influence/mentors in academies and the lower minors, why not at the ML level?

 

I am a big Gardy fan, and agree he's not the reason for 4 losing seasons. There are SO many factors. And the truth is, he could probably be kept around longer, and with proposed moves made, and more and more talented youngsters moving up, could help usher in a new Twins winning era. It's also true he could probably get hired by another team, possibly with a more veteran team, and prove to everyone he's still got what it takes to be a quality ML manager. But I think we've reached a tipping point where that new voice, that new perspective leader is needed...not as a fault against Gardy...but to build and maintain the next wave for some time.

 

Patience is a virtue, but a hard one to maintain in this case. But it has to be maintained to some degree. I sometimes wonder if 2012 and 2013 had Ryan thinking to himself: "no matter what I do, I just can't do enough to fix this right now. Not until a couple of these kids reach or get close. For now, I'll just patchwork where I can, but I just won't publicly admit where we are."

 

The Twins absolutely have the finances to make a couple solid to strong moves. And they have an owner willing to do so. And in regard to LF, possible RP and possible temp CF, I could see any or all happening. It's the BIG TIME SP that I am conflicted about. No question that would do the most to potentially springboard the team back to relevance. But unless can weave a solid trade who's cost is fair, but doesn't hurt, I have a hard time trading away top prospect talent for a rebuilding team. But history has also shown that the big contracts, dollars and years, to sign a top FA SP pays off in the first years but proves to be sunk cost later on. Not saying the young Twins couldn't afford to do so, but would it end up hurting efforts to re-sign Hughes, or make another move to supplement the roster two or three years from now when all the young talent is in place?

 

A great article, and well thought out! Thank you!

[stringer bell]

I agree with almost all of your take, SD. Yes, the Twins need a top flight pitcher and yes they need a Hispanic presence. I think four 90-plus loss seasons is too many, but I can't see either of both Sano and Buxton starting 2015 in the majors.

 

The strib put together quite a nice series of articles. This is a real good response to the articles and should be a great thread to talk about the Twins' immediate future.

[brvama]

Great read. I sincerely agree action ike this is desperately needed. One can nitpick the specifics, but the fact is, something relevant must take place. Thanks for a well thought out proposal. I sure hope that Mr. Polhad sees it it.

[Kwak]

I read the paper too--and immediately concluded that all four ideas were not mutually exclusive.  While adding the aforementioned Latino coaches the team can also provide copies of Rosetta Stone with a note saying "get all the help you need and learn this"!  They can also provide basic computer skills and a book on statistics for baseball.

 

Replacing Gardenhire is a must--but not if it's someone who quotes Gardenhire and TK--it has to be someone with a fresh attitude.

 

Patience is as long as next season--win enough to show the corner has been turned and playing to win the division at the end of the 2016 season will happen.

 

The definition of "ace" is fluid and a name must be acquired--and so must someone who can transform Nolasco into someone consistently useful.  Fixing Nolasco's problem would be huge.

[SarasotaBill]

Pelfrey and Nolasco were awlful signings.

Pelfrey - injury prone history

Nolasco's ERA last five years in NL - 3.70, 4.48, 4.67, 4.51, 5.06

 

Ryan needs to sign an Ace (Lester) to make the Twins relevant.

 

Cost of Nolasco + Pelfrey is close to the cost of an Ace (buy quality).

 

Without a true ace signing:

- The Twins will be irrelevant again in 2015

-The bullpen will get crushed again (young pitchers tend to be inconsistent)

- The top propspects debuting next Summer will create a spark of interest

- By August, most people's interest will turn to football

[Platoon]

My only concern with finding a FA LF or CF is that if they drop significant dollars to do so they will block the prospects. In most cases this would not be true, but the Twins don't seem to like to trade someone like that, especially in the first year. Now it could be argued that Morales disproves that theory, but he truly was a rental, destined to stay or go depending on those fateful 10 games after the ASG!

[big dog]

Hey SD, I like your vision.  It makes more sense as a whole than any of the individual parts do.

[diehardtwinsfan]

If you owned the Twins, would you be willing to jettison the Nolasco and Pelfrey contracts? I think Jim P. is first and foremost a business man and I while I could see him calling Pelf a sunk cost, Nolasco is going to be a different story with 36M left on teh table. I think that's a pretty big deal, b/c if they go out and get another expensive FA pitcher and that doesn't work, then what? At one point, these contracts make it very difficult for them to be competitive.

 

What I do think is that it might be in the Twins best interest to see about aquiring a stud pitcher and/or a stud LF in the high minors. They do have some minor league depth to pull it off, and if it could be achieved without giving up on Sano, Meyer, and Buxton, then I think they would be wise to do it. I'd note though that I think the odds of pulling this off are pretty low given that those pitchers are very very expensive. Their major league trade chips (Plouffe, Escobar, and maybe Gibson) combined with a lesser minor league prospect might get something to a team looking to win now (particularly an LF), but I don't see those guys netting a quality pitcher.

[lightfoot789]

My question is - When the Twins do promote the up and coming prospects - Will they be patient or Send them back down to AAA as soon as they run into trouble?  The problem with Major league trouble is that it can't be replicated in AAA.  Sometimes you have to have trial by error and that can result in more down years by the time some of them come up to the MLB level.  Can they afford to bring all their needed pieces one at a time or Are they better off bringing SANO; BUXTON; ROSARIO; BERRIOS; BURDI; Z. JONES; POLANCO; ETC.; all up together?  MEYER and MAY should be there by opening day (I'm assuming), or they can be part of the Movement as well. This way they can go thru those trials and tribulations together and grow together.  I think fans would come to games (fixing attendance) and appreciate the movement at least despite possible results  They could see the potential like the Vargas; Santana; and Arcia of this year and truly believe in their hearts that things are changing.  I see a Mid Season Movement if the Twins are to retain a loyal fan base.  Ready or Not Here They Come - {Strictly Business}
 

So regardless to who owns the Twins - What is the plan when the so called "Future" does arrive at Target Field?  What are the EXPECTS?

[Steven Buhr]

If you owned the Twins, would you be willing to jettison the Nolasco and Pelfrey contracts? I think Jim P. is first and foremost a business man and I while I could see him calling Pelf a sunk cost, Nolasco is going to be a different story with 36M left on teh table. I think that's a pretty big deal, b/c if they go out and get another expensive FA pitcher and that doesn't work, then what? At one point, these contracts make it very difficult for them to be competitive.

 

Nolasco and Pelfrey are both "sunk costs," just as are Hughes, Perkins, Mauer and anyone else with a multi-year contract. Absent a trade or someone picking them up on waivers, you're going to pay them.

 

So yes, if you feel fielding a better team would increase revenues significantly and you feel replacing any of those players would significantly improve the team, you have to be willing to do so. I personally think it's premature to write off Nolasco.

 

With so many of the likely members of the 2017-2020 rosters likely to remain under team control (pre-arb or arb levels) for the rest of this decade, there is plenty of room to take a chance on a high priced pitcher or two, even if they turned out to be mistakes. The issue shouldn't be money, but whether they block a better prospect.

 

At this point, it makes no sense to add another Nolasco-level SP. You can improve your rotation by adding someone at the top and thus shifting Hughes to #2, Nolasco/Gibson to #3/#4 (in whatever order you might prefer) and May/Meyer to #5. You would not improve your rotation by adding another #3 starter who would simply block a May or Meyer, each of which could just as likely BE a #3 starter a year from now.

 

If/when it reaches the point where you are convinced a healthy Nolasco is not among your best 5 SPs, yes, you eat the cost when you have a better option for that final rotation spot.

 

Similarly (and this is probably a topic for a separate thread someday), while I do expect a rebound season out of Joe Mauer, let's just say that doesn't happen this year. If 2016-17 roll around and you find yourself in a position where you are competing, you as an owner may have to consider eating the final 2-3 years of Mauer's contract. I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to envision a lineup with Vargas and Sano as your 1B/DH pairing and an OF filled with Arcia, Buxton and one of any number of up and coming OFs (Hicks/Rosario/Harrison/Walker/others - take your pick).

 

I expect Mauer to return to his .300 hitting doubles-machine self and, if so, he will have value through the end of his contract. But if he doesn't, he will become expendable, regardless of the contract. It's not like his leadership in the clubhouse is going to make him a must-keep player (unless he steps up his game in that regard soon, as well).

[Mike Sixel]

The argument many make seems to be "don't sing FA because they might now work out, and that's too much money to tie up".....what else would you all do with that money, other than pocket it? There isn't a player in this system that needs/deserves/gets a big money deal in the next 3-4 years. Not one. There is plenty of money to sign a big time FA SP if they want. By the time they need to sign Sano or Buxton or someone, Mauer's money is off the books.

 

I endorse the plan laid out, though I'd say sign a top 10 guy on the WAR list....or even top 5.

[Steven Buhr]

I endorse the plan laid out, though I'd say sign a top 10 guy on the WAR list....or even top 5.

 

A truly professional writer making a fair living from his employer would take the time to research exactly who would be on a "top 20" WAR list for SPs before submitting his column for publication.

 

I'm not such a person.

 

But it would be interesting to see what names would be on such a list. "Top 5" would not be reasonable to expect, imo. You can't make any of them who are FAs want to play for you if they don't view you as a contender and any pitcher at that level is not likely to be traded for any package you could offer.

 

Top 10-15, you should get some nibbles. I figured Top 20 would remove any potential excuses from my GM concerning limited options being available.

[Mike Sixel]

I agree, top 5 is probably not reasonable as a threshold for firing.....I would "encourage" the signing at that level though.

[tobi0040]

Nolasco and Pelfrey are both "sunk costs," just as are Hughes, Perkins, Mauer and anyone else with a multi-year contract. Absent a trade or someone picking them up on waivers, you're going to pay them.

 

So yes, if you feel fielding a better team would increase revenues significantly and you feel replacing any of those players would significantly improve the team, you have to be willing to do so. I personally think it's premature to write off Nolasco.

 

With so many of the likely members of the 2017-2020 rosters likely to remain under team control (pre-arb or arb levels) for the rest of this decade, there is plenty of room to take a chance on a high priced pitcher or two, even if they turned out to be mistakes. The issue shouldn't be money, but whether they block a better prospect.

 

At this point, it makes no sense to add another Nolasco-level SP. You can improve your rotation by adding someone at the top and thus shifting Hughes to #2, Nolasco/Gibson to #3/#4 (in whatever order you might prefer) and May/Meyer to #5. You would not improve your rotation by adding another #3 starter who would simply block a May or Meyer, each of which could just as likely BE a #3 starter a year from now.

 

If/when it reaches the point where you are convinced a healthy Nolasco is not among your best 5 SPs, yes, you eat the cost when you have a better option for that final rotation spot.

 

Similarly (and this is probably a topic for a separate thread someday), while I do expect a rebound season out of Joe Mauer, let's just say that doesn't happen this year. If 2016-17 roll around and you find yourself in a position where you are competing, you as an owner may have to consider eating the final 2-3 years of Mauer's contract. I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to envision a lineup with Vargas and Sano as your 1B/DH pairing and an OF filled with Arcia, Buxton and one of any number of up and coming OFs (Hicks/Rosario/Harrison/Walker/others - take your pick).

 

I expect Mauer to return to his .300 hitting doubles-machine self and, if so, he will have value through the end of his contract. But if he doesn't, he will become expendable, regardless of the contract. It's not like his leadership in the clubhouse is going to make him a must-keep player (unless he steps up his game in that regard soon, as well).

 

I really loved the article.  The Twins could talk themselves out of a lot of moves by the logic "well firing Gardy is not going to make us a playoff team next year".  I liked how you noted that it is going to take many things to right this ship.

 

The only thing I believe would be a bad idea is Buxton breaking camp with the Twins. He was overwhelmed last spring and really didn't play.  He probably needs to get in a routine again before the added pressure of the big stage.

 

Regarding Pelfrey, I think it would be a nice symbolic move to cut him. Logic would suggest try him in the pen and I would not be shocked if the Twins broke camp with him in the rotation.  But if Terry Ryan wants to say noboy is on scholarship, then cutting a guy that has shown nothing but horrible results and injury for four years in a row would send a message that we are going to break camp next year wth good players. 

 

I think it makes sense to keep Ricky and not dump him.  This year was an anomoly for him.  Moving him would require us to pay him to pitch for someone else next year.  My hope is that we have a new piching coach as well next year.  If we sign a very good pitcher and Ricky return to the guy we thought we were getting, we are better by two spots in the rotation.

[Steven Buhr]

I really loved the article.  The Twins could talk themselves out of a lot of moves by the logic "well firing Gardy is not going to make us a playoff team next year".  I liked how you noted that it is going to take many things to right this ship.

 

The only thing I believe would be a bad idea is Buxton breaking camp with the Twins. He was overwhelmed last spring and really didn't play.  He probably needs to get in a routine again before the added pressure of the big stage.

 

 

If I came back from my cruise and TR came to my office and said, "hey I got the 'ace' pitcher, there are two guys named Pedro on the coaching staff, Ozzie Guillen is our new manager and Sano & Meyer will be on the opening day roster. But, coming off an injury, I REALLY think Buck needs to start the season in Chattanooga," I think I'd probably have two reactions: 1) I'm fine with Buxton starting the season at AA, but if he's lighting it up in May, I don't want to hear about how he needs more time; and 2) Did you really say Ozzie freaking Guillen?

[Madre Dos]

Something has to be done with Joe Mauer's contract.  He is an annual $23,000,000 drain.  That is $5,750,000 per HR and $442,000 per RBI.  Put Vargas on 1st and get Pinto behind the plate for at least 50% of the games.  Josmil is never going to get any better in the bullpen.

[nicksaviking]

If I came back from my cruise and TR came to my office and said, "hey I got the 'ace' pitcher, there are two guys named Pedro on the coaching staff, Ozzie Guillen is our new manager and Sano & Meyer will be on the opening day roster. But, coming off an injury, I REALLY think Buck needs to start the season in Chattanooga," I think I'd probably have two reactions: 1) I'm fine with Buxton starting the season at AA, but if he's lighting it up in May, I don't want to hear about how he needs more time; and 2) Did you really say Ozzie freaking Guillen?

 

Yeah, we really need to examine the psychology around our word assoiation.  For some reason when we here Latin manager, the first response is Ozzie Guillen.  There are tons options aside from him.

[nicksaviking]

Something has to be done with Joe Mauer's contract.  He is an annual $23,000,000 drain.  That is $5,750,000 per HR and $442,000 per RBI.  Put Vargas on 1st and get Pinto behind the plate for at least 50% of the games.  Josmil is never going to get any better in the bullpen.

 

His contract isn't preventing the Twins from signing anyone.  They are still well below a reasonable payroll.

 

His contract can't just be torn up, in baseball salaries are guarenteed.  I'm not sure what you are suggesting the Twins do with it.  If you don't want it, understandably other clubs don't want it either.

[nicksaviking]

Ha, I loved the article and loved the part about how Ryan had to go out and find a top 20 WAR pitcher to anchor the staff.  Then I thought about it, did a quick Fangraphs check and realized they already have one. 

 

Who would have thought Phil Hughes is currently #3 in WAR this year?!

 

He's 16th according to BBR.  BBR and Fangraphs have different ways to calculate WAR, but that gap is much bigger than I'd expect.

Edited September 25, 2014 by nicksaviking

[Dantes929]

Its true that all these things are not mutually exclusive. Having patience that the young players will develop is my major preference but that can go hand in hand with getting a top pitcher here. Think of getting Shields as being the equivalent of getting Blyleven in 1985. Think of Buxton being the shot in the arm that Knoblach was. Think of Meyer as the equivalent of a developing Viola. This team is nowhere near as off track as 2011 regardless of the similar record.

[Siehbiscuit]

To solve our temporary CF problem and our long-term LF problem, would you consider a move for Matt Kemp? If we give up a good prospect (say Rosario or Polanco), but they have to eat half the contract? He may realize his potential with the spotlight off of him in Hollywood. BUT is he a big enough name to draw fans?

[Mike Sixel]

He's been very good offensively in the second half this year, now that he is healthy.....do people trust Kemp to stay healthy?

[cgreuling]

The top 20 pitchers in WAR: (according to ESPN)

 

1 Clayton Kershaw 7.64
2 Corey Kluber 6.87
3 Chris Sale 6.59
4 Felix Hernandez 6.37
5 Cole Hamels 6.33
6 Johnny Cueto 6.14
7 Adam Wainwright 6.05
8 Max Scherzer 5.81
9 Jake Arrieta 5.3
10 Dallas Keuchel 5.18
11 Tanner Roark 5.16
12 Rick Porcello 4.44
13 Jordan Zimmermann 4.37
14 Garrett Richards 4.35
15 Collin McHugh 4.32
16 Phil Hughes 4.29
17 Henderson Alvarez 4.21
18 Zack Greinke 4.19
19 Masahiro Tanaka 4.1
20 Alex Cobb 4.01

[cgreuling]

I wonder what it would take to get a guy like Hamels from Philly, if they actually go into sell off mode this off season. I think he only has 3 or 4 years left on his deal, that scares me less than going after a guy like Scherzer for 5 or 6 years.

[tobi0040]

I wonder what it would take to get a guy like Hamels from Philly, if they actually go into sell off mode this off season. I think he only has 3 or 4 years left on his deal, that scares me less than going after a guy like Scherzer for 5 or 6 years.

 

But you have to give up prospects too.  Hamels is a very good pitcher that would require Sano or Buxton.   I would rather have Scherzer and 6 @25 a year, and Buxton than Hamels for 4 @ 25 without Buxton.  Basically choosing to give up Buxton and not have Max two more years. 

Edited September 25, 2014 by tobi0040

[Steven Buhr]

But you have to give up prospects too.  Hamels is a very good pitcher that would require Sano or Buxton.   I would rather have Scherzer and 6 @25 a year, and Buxton than Hamels for 4 @ 25 without Buxton.  Basically choosing to give up Buxton and not have Max two more years. 

 

I probably already know the answer, but I'm going to ask it anyway. What if, instead of Buxton, it's Sano that gets you Hamels (or, preferably, some younger top 5-type SP)? At this point, are you any more inclined to listen?

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but while I've always hoped Sano would stick at 3B (and believe he should continue to get every opportunity to do so), deep down I've always felt he would probably end up at 1B/DH.

 

For me, Kennys Vargas was a lottery ticket... never felt real confident his game would translate in to a serious MLB power hitter, but if it did, you'd have a potential monster coming pretty close to the ceiling I've inwardly placed on Sano.

 

IF... IF... Vargas is really that good going forward, can you consider a Sano trade for a young ace you'll have on staff for a while?

[GoGonzoJournal]

What do you think of Ozzie Guillen? He's been my choice for two years.

 

I'm very sorry SD, but I'm afraid we think along almost the exact same lines! Lol NOT tooting my own horn, but I've been calling for a quality Latin/Latino (whichever) coach added to the staff since the last "shakeup".