Pinto or Gardy

[Mike Sixel]

Unless I missed an injury, last night Gardy put in Fryer, and not Pinto......if so, I guess this might not be a topic.

 

It sure appears Gardy is never going to trust Pinto. Would you rather trade Pinto, or fire Gardy?

[Kwak]

Gardy should be gone irrespectiveof any issue with Pinto.  Playing Fryar does permit more data points to assess his "future with the Twins", which might be the actual reason why Fryar is in the lineup.

[Craig Arko]

Nothing like a little C-4 in an oil tanker, I always say.

[stringer bell]

The game was in extra innings.  Gardy wanted to win the game, so he put in the better defensive catcher.  It would allow Pinto to hit for somebody in a later inning, and certainly Fryer wasn't going to hit with the game on the line.  Yes, I'm disappointed that Pinto isn't getting more reps, but if Gardenhire wants to put his best lineup out there, Suzuki currently gives them a better chance to win.  It wouldn't surprise me if Pinto is the DH today, considering Vargas' struggles and poor ABs as a RH hitter.

[Mike Sixel]

When did pinto last play? This isn't just last night.........

[Thrylos]

Pitcher ERA (Innings caught)

 

Suzuki: 4.52 (973.7)
Fryer: 4.81 (181.3)
Pinto: 4.82 (200)

 

OPS+ (PA)

 

Suzuki: 107 (481)
Pinto: 101 (181)
Fryer: 66 (76)

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The Twins apparently have obtained secret data that no one else has, that shows Suzuki will continue his hot hitting all of the next two years and will not miss time with injury, thereby not needing a reliable backup at all.

 

Obviously Suzuki is having a great year and like any player worth his salt, doesn't want to be on the bench. He's better than Pinto so he gets the starts. Twins are still in "win now" mode.

 

Or I have a couple other conspiracy ideas:

1. Gardy knows of Suzuki's playing time incentives and is giving him a chance to earn those

 

2. Pinto went Lohse on Gardy's office door with a chair

[Mike Sixel]

So basically the argument is that, a young guy should not be playing in a lost season? Got it. And catcher ERA might be worse than pitcher wins as a predictive stat......

[Thrylos]

So basically the argument is that, a young guy should not be playing in a lost season? Got it. And catcher ERA might be worse than pitcher wins as a predictive stat......

 

That ERA was an argument in Pinto's favor. 

 

It is not a predictive stat.  But it works to describe how effective the pitchers were in surrendering earned runs when each of the three catchers worked with them.   Based on that, the pitching staff is as effective in avoiding opponents runs, when Pinto is catching as it is when Fryer is catching and just less than when Suzuki catching.  (Small sample not withstanding)

 

Add the fact that Pinto will improve with more reps, and is in the part of his career to improve, and I think that it is ridiculous that he is not catching meaningless games...   (But big Pinto fan here, so my position should not be a surprise; like that on Gardenhire   )

 

Lots of defensive matters (and opinions from certain pitchers and coaches) about the effectiveness of a catcher to call a game, but nothing as factual about how many runs does a pitching staff give up when someone is catching them.

[Kwak]

The Twins could just award Suzuki his incentive money and not play him.

[notoriousgod71]

When the Twins did their September call-ups someone posted something along the likes of, "Great with four catchers there is no need to ever see Fryer again."

 

His playing time has not decreased at all despite having Pinto and Hermann (who I doubt will ever catch again). It is really inexcusable. Pinto should have a future with this club. Fryer shouldn't but undoubtedly will.

[stringer bell]

Since the rosters were expanded, Fryer has started one game.  He's appeared late in two others, a grand total of four at-bats.  That is 1.3 at-bats per week.  In the same time, Pinto has 21 at-bats (with four hits), he has started five games, one as a DH. No, Pinto is not playing enough to suit me, but Fryer isn't getting more playing time.   

[Otto von Ballpark]

17 games since rosters expanded, Suzuki has started 12 (71%), although 2 of his non-starts were doubleheader games.  He started 98 games at catcher in our previous 136 games (72%).  He only needs 5 more starts in the last 9 games to get his bonus.

 

Pinto has started 4 games at catcher in the 15 games since his recall (27%).  He started 18 in 61 earlier this year before his demotion (30%).

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Pinto has started 4 games at catcher in the 15 games since his recall (27%). 

And 1 game in the last 11 (9%).

None of the last 8 games (0%).

 

The thing is, it doesn't really matter to me. Suzuki continues to play hard and get big hits. It's just an eye opener to me that we're not in the business of developing catchers anymore (Doumit over Herrmann, Suzuki over Pinto). Garver will be 25 in the summer of 2016 and will hopefully get a chance at that time.

[The Wise One]

Myth 1. Pinto is young. 25 should not be considered young. 9 years in the organization

[TheLeviathan]

Myth 1. Pinto is young. 25 should not be considered young. 9 years in the organization

 

http://giffiles.alphacoders.com/197/197.gif

[The Wise One]

In terms of developing players and the Twins, how much time has Santana and Vargas played. Maybe there is a good reason that Doumit and SUzuki had played over Hermann and Pinto. More talented comes to mind.

[The Wise One]

The topic has a fatal flaw. It assumes a different manager would have played Pinto. The only time that would be true is spring training

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

In the radio postgame tonight:

 

Kris Atteberry: The guy I'm disappointed in is Pinto, who hasn't shown anything lately.

 

Dan Gladden: Pinto hasn't even played!!! I don't know how he can show anything if he doesn't play.

 

Atteberry: Well, Pinto has struggled. He's 0-for his last 15 ---

 

Gladden: --hard to get into a rhythm when you're only coming off the bench for one at bat every other night. Gardy says he wants to see how Pinto responds to going through a stretch like this. Fine, but maybe Pinto needs to catch 3, 4 games in a row. Hard to improve your catching skills when you're catching guys like Deduno half the time.

 

Atteberry: We'll see.

[TheLeviathan]

Gladden says a lot I like, I just wish they'd let him be a color guy only.  But I love that exchange, thanks for sharing it.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm just paraphrasing the exchange, but those guys represented each side of the debate perfectly tonight. So I doubt the frustration with Pinto's lack of playing time is limited to just us shrill internet commenters.

[Kwak]

I'm just paraphrasing the exchange, but those guys represented each side of the debate perfectly tonight. So I doubt the frustration with Pinto's lack of playing time is limited to just us shrill internet commenters.

Might that have been a scripted tete` de tete`?  One where the opinion expressed is not necessarily held by the speaker.

[jokin]

The topic has a fatal flaw. It assumes a different manager would have played Pinto. The only time that would be true is spring training

 

What is September on a team about to lose 90+ games for the 4th consecutive year but Spring Training- Fall Edition^TM?

[jokin]

In the radio postgame tonight:

 

Kris Atteberry: The guy I'm disappointed in is Pinto, who hasn't shown anything lately.

 

Dan Gladden: Pinto hasn't even played!!! I don't know how he can show anything if he doesn't play.

 

Atteberry: Well, Pinto has struggled. He's 0-for his last 15 ---

 

Gladden: --hard to get into a rhythm when you're only coming off the bench for one at bat every other night. Gardy says he wants to see how Pinto responds to going through a stretch like this. Fine, but maybe Pinto needs to catch 3, 4 games in a row. Hard to improve your catching skills when you're catching guys like Deduno half the time.

 

Atteberry: We'll see.

 

"The guy I'm disappointed in is Pinto"...  What?... That has to be audio trolling, no informed baseball guy would say something that dense, given the facts of the matter.

 

That Pinto is not playing at least 50% of the time since the call-up date, and that Fryer is playing ANY % is baffling, when, by all accounts, Pinto has to play to improve his catching skills.   Moreover, Pinto goes 4 for 10 in his first two September starts with 4 doubles.  Since then, he's had all of 3 starts over the last 15 DAYS, and hasn't played at the Catcher position in 9 DAYS. And one of those starts was at DH.  And Gladden even got it wrong about Pinto appearing "every other night", Pinto's last PH appearance before tonight was Monday, which would be 5 DAYS ago.  Can you say, "Set Up for Failure?"  

 

Even if the Twins don't like Pinto as a long-term option (which seems like a pretty good guess at this point!), it was just good business to play Pinto as much as possible in September, if for nothing else, but showcasing purposes, in a potential offseason trade.  

[Thegrin]

Did you watch the last time Pinto caught ? He was awful.  I wouldn't trust him to block any breaking balls down and in the dirt.  Perhaps Steinbach is working hard with him or perhaps he has given up on him.

[drjim]

Right or wrong, it seems Gardy doesn't want to catch Pinto against a team competing for a playoff berth.

 

I think he'll get two games against Arizona and a game against Detroit after they clinch.

[drjim]

Did you watch the last time Pinto caught ? He was awful. I wouldn't trust him to block any breaking balls down and in the dirt. Perhaps Steinbach is working hard with him or perhaps he has given up on him.

It does seem that Pinto's actual talent level at catching doesn't enter into this conversation as often as it should.

[Linus]

I've been frustrated with Pinto lack of playing time and Santana's lack of time at short. Gardy cares more about the old be competitive against contenders than what's best for his own club.

[USAFChief]

Did you watch the last time Pinto caught ? He was awful.  I wouldn't trust him to block any breaking balls down and in the dirt.  Perhaps Steinbach is working hard with him or perhaps he has given up on him.

I did watch him the last time he caught. The Twins lost 2-0 in Cleveland on Sep 11. He caught the entire game, with zero wild pitches or passed balls, so I'm not sure which balls he didnt block. He did allow one SB. He coaxed 7 innings of six hit, one run, zero walk, five K ball from Nolasco,

[nicksaviking]

Myth 1. Pinto is young. 25 should not be considered young. 9 years in the organization

 

Dang, time to scrap the rebuild then I guess.  May turns 25 on Tuesday.  Gibson is already over 25 and Meyer will be before the start of spring training.