How in the world did this guy pitch so well with Oakland? I expected him to be more mediocre than good.... but never expected him to be this bad. He looks like the next Duensing. 

How in the world did this guy pitch so well with Oakland? I expected him to be more mediocre than good.... but never expected him to be this bad. He looks like the next Duensing. 

Yeah he does not look good at all.  Low velocity pitcher with little movement on his pitches.  Not a good combination.  

Agreed, I don't know who to blame really. Milone, Anderson, or the fact that his shirt says "Minnesota" now.

I blame it on bad kismet. The Twins should hire a swami to flush the metaphysical pipes out. 

 

Too eerily familiar.

Billy Beane knew.

Agreed, I don't know who to blame really.

Scouting?

Like I said...

I hated watching him pitch today.  I remember when he pitched to Oakland. 

 

Either he is:

 

1) Hurt

Traumatized by his demotion to AAA through no fault of his own and he has not been able to get his head screwed back on straight.

Billy Beane knew.

 

So did Terry Ryan.  Remember he was traded for Sam Fuld.

 

This kind of illustrates my point that you don't have to keep rotation spots open for guys like Milone.  He should be more of a plan B.

Reminds me of Scott Diamond.  No margin for error because his stuff is below average. He was worth a shot but no one to plan on for next year.

Milone has had some periods of good performance in the past.  I wish that Parker would do an article with videos comparing his past pitching with what we have seen recently.

He's a Diamond+ pitcher. I wouldn't end the discussion on him right now. It's a bad season all-around. He probably has a good start next time.

Not sure what people expected..........he was demoted to AAA and traded for a 4th OF. Though, I admit, he has been even worse than I expected.

I'm really glad we're getting this out of the way now. One if these times the twins will strike gold (cough) with a Jamie Moyer.... right?

 

I don't really blame his lack of success on anyone. Only difference might be pitch selection, but he is the one throwing and can always shake signs. At the end of the day, he just shouldn't be factored into the future for this team.

I'm really glad we're getting this out of the way now. One if these times the twins will strike gold (cough) with a Jamie Moyer.... right?

 

I don't really blame his lack of success on anyone. Only difference might be pitch selection, but he is the one throwing and can always shake signs. At the end of the day, he just shouldn't be factored into the future for this team.

 

100% agreed. This is what a losing season is for, seeing players. Like, when your starter only goes 3.2 innings, you get a chance to see the RP you brought up, like they did last night........

There's a reason the A's were willing to trade Milone, a starter who still has options left, for a guy they had already taken off their roster once this season.  They saw that his relatively shiny ERA was not much more than a mirage.

 

Milone looks like another Scott Diamond to me, which is fine until things go bad and he falls off a cliff.

Yeah, he's been a lot worse than I thought.  I guess it's only 20 innings so it's probably too early to panic but man, it's ugly.  I'm not sure it's anyone's "fault" anymore than leaving the Colosseum.  His ERA at home was about a full run better than on the road and I suspect that Oakland's large foul ball territory really helps mediocre pitchers look better than they are.  

 

But I agree with the general consensus that he shouldn't be blocking Meyer or May out of ST next year.

Yeah, he's been a lot worse than I thought.  I guess it's only 20 innings so it's probably too early to panic but man, it's ugly.  I'm not sure it's anyone's "fault" anymore than leaving the Colosseum.  His ERA at home was about a full run better than on the road and I suspect that Oakland's large foul ball territory really helps mediocre pitchers look better than they are.  

 

But I agree with the general consensus that he shouldn't be blocking Meyer or May out of ST next year.

 

In addition to that the Twins shouldn't avoid the SP FA market because they have to have an opening day spot for 3 of Milone, Meyer, May and a possibly injured Nolasco.  As far as I can tell Milone, May and Meyer will still have options (1 option for the first two I think).

Milone was squeezed out of the Oakland rotation by trades, not poor performance. He wasn't pitching too bad this year. And then........ he comes here.

 

I grant that Milone had a favorable Home/Away split at the Coliseum, but even so he's performed like a decent mid rotation starter for two and a half seasons. That's closer to Phil Hughes than a one hit wonder like Scott Diamond. IMO

Milone was squeezed out of the Oakland rotation by trades, not poor performance. He wasn't pitching too bad this year. And then........ he comes here.

 

I grant that Milone had a favorable Home/Away split at the Coliseum, but even so he's performed like a decent mid rotation starter for two and a half seasons. That's closer to Phil Hughes than a one hit wonder like Scott Diamond. IMO

 

He has a 4.54 ERA away from the Coliseum.  That's nothing like Hughes and Hughes has the magical stuff.  If you don't like the Diamond comp then Worley would be better.  He had pitched well for two seasons but he had marginal stuff and he fell apart.  Perhaps Milone can be decent but the most optimistic prediction should be a 4.00 ERA.  Most likely he's in the 4.25-4.50 range. 

The Diamond comp is appropriate because Milone is a pitcher with a small margin for error to be successful.  Guys like that are often on the wrong side of the margin.

So, I guess the Twins didn't screw the A's?  Consider what is normally stocked in the bargain basement.  Outright failures, overages, and outdated merchandise.  Milone belongs in the outdated category.  It looks OK on the surface because you've seen it before, but is only appropriate a couple of times a year.  Good news--he cost next to nothing.  But given Ryan the Twins will still frequent the basement in hope that leisure suits will come back into style.

I don't completely buy the argument that Milone has gotten lucky for over two seasons, and that we shouldn't be too surprised at how he's pitched since he got here. That's sort of what I hear people saying; I don't think I'm mischaracterizing too much?

 

I won't compare him to Hughes again but I don't see why he should suddenly go in the tank when he pulls on the Twins uniform either. Twins need to figure out what's wrong with their pitching operation and fix it asap - goes beyond Milone.

 

If you don't like the Diamond comp then Worley would be better.

 

Careful throwing that name around.

I won't compare him to Hughes again but I don't see why he should suddenly go in the tank when he pulls on the Twins uniform either. Twins need to figure out what's wrong with their pitching operation and fix it asap - goes beyond Milone.

 

AMEN!

Definitely looks like Milone is a bit more a project than some of us assumed, based on his history and numbers.  In that regard, he's a lot like the two pitchers we got in the Revere trade (Worley and May) -- there is probably a reason these two trades looked so great on paper!  Meyer from the Span trade could probably be added to this list, although his concern was mostly health, and he was still a low-minors guy when we got him.

 

Still, I would make these trades any day of the week, given our recent team composition.  Would rather roll the dice on possible starters than hang onto mediocre outfielders.

I normally like to preach patience and giving guys a chance to prove that their struggles are the norm, rather than an anomaly...but I can't do it with Milone. I haven't seen anything that gives me hope or makes me think he has the makeup of a 5th starter.

 

May? He's shown flashes of being good. He was mowing down O's batters in his last start. His control has improved. He gives me hope.

 

Nolasco? His career shows that while he won't be an ace, he shouldn't be a total trainwreck like he has been this year.

 

Milone? I've got nothing. Road / home splits show that the Oakland expanse they call a ballpark was helping those numbers - not much in the way of movement, no really speed. If he isn't hitting his spots or if he's pitching to a tight zone (like last night) he's just terrible.

I looked at Fangraphs and Milone has dramitically changed the pitches he is throwing.  He has thrown a lot fewer 2 seam fastballs and replaced that with the 4 seam.  He has dropped off a bunch of his curves and replaced them with changeups.  

 

If he was throwing the same set of stuff that he threw in Oakland with different results I would think Milone is the issue but since the gameplan seems to be different I have to think that some fault lies in the coaching staff and catchers.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7608&position=P#pitchtype

I think some of it must have been the Oakland pitching staff. Those ERA numbers look really good for Milone the past 3 years, and now he comes here and tanks. It must some bad luck combined with the large gap of the superior Oakland staff and the sub-par Twins pitching staff.

I looked at Fangraphs and Milone has dramitically changed the pitches he is throwing.  He has thrown a lot fewer 2 seam fastballs and replaced that with the 4 seam.  He has dropped off a bunch of his curves and replaced them with changeups.  

 

If he was throwing the same set of stuff that he threw in Oakland with different results I would think Milone is the issue but since the gameplan seems to be different I have to think that some fault lies in the coaching staff and catchers.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7608&position=P#pitchtype

 

You beat me to it, great post that leaves many a Twins fan wondering, what is going on with the coaching philosophy?  How much is chalked up to luck?  How much is individual ability? Milone is working with his #1 fan as his catcher in Suzuki.  And the quizzical nature of all of this works for outgoing pitchers as well, ie,  Liriano is still having a much better year this year for the Pirates, as well as last year's dominant performance, than he had in his last two Twins seasons (ERA+ of close to 110 with the Bucs, vs. 79 in his last two years with the Twns/Sox)  The difference in his pitches?  Even with virtually no change in his velocity, he's dropped his overall FB%, from the 50-60% range to 41.6% in both 2013 and 2014, and increased his Change-Up rate by about 50%.

 

Meanwhile, on the flip side, Phil Hughes has found renewed success, he dropped the Slider and the Change from 2013, kept the FB% about the same rate (same velo), added the Cutter, increased the Curve%.  

For those saying the Milone demotion wasn't performance based:

Do you really think the A's go out and trade away maybe the best pure SS prospect in baseball if they think Milone was actually as good as his ERA suggested?