Love Trade

[TheLeviathan]

It does seem like we've been looking for shooting forever.  A guy like Rubio, ideally, is surrounded by shooters to make him as effective as he can be.

[Brock Beauchamp]

They need to completely tank and hope for a top 3 pick

Dave, it's the Timberwolves. They'll get no higher than the sixth pick no matter how spectacularly they fall on their face.

[ashbury]

Yeah, I guess I ask this question every year, but have the Wolves ever drafted higher than their reverse standings ranking would call for?  I think their pingpong ball has literally never come up.  Meanwhile we get treated to the spectacle of the Orlando GM's face lit up with mock shock at coming up #1 yet again.

[biggentleben]

Yeah, I guess I ask this question every year, but have the Wolves ever drafted higher than their reverse standings ranking would call for?  I think their pingpong ball has literally never come up.  Meanwhile we get treated to the spectacle of the Orlando GM's face lit up with mock shock at coming up #1 yet again.

 

Interesting that it's in this thread as Love is one of the few players who they got by getting a lottery pick.  In 2008, they turned the #3 pick into Love after drafting OJ Mayo.  Other than that they've had just a couple of lottery picks - 1992 #3 (Laettner) and 2011 #2 (Derrick Williams).

[kab21]

OT or actually back to the original topic.

 

Watching the Cavs flail hopelessly is a guilty pleasure this season.  I wish Kevin the best and have no ill feelings toward him but I dislike Lebron and his superteam creating.  As a matter of fact I would at least partly blame Lebron for overstepping his bounds and acting as GM and coach so far.

[ALessKosherScott]

I feel bad for Love, because it would seem Chicago, Golden State or Houston were better suited for his game with Noah, Bogut or D12 being able to cover his defensive lapses better. The problem in Cleveland is that there isn't a great defensive center to bring everything together and LBJ is aging to the point where he'll probably become a power forward soon, a la Magic and Jordan. Throw in a chucker at point guard in Irving and it was always a bad recipe. Blatt seems to be getting the blame where the GM did a poor job of team construction.

 

The bright side for the TWolves is that as bad as they've been, at the very least there's a legit excuse. They were headed to 3-2 before Rubio got hurt. Throw in their best shooter in Martin and best rebounder in Pek and that's too much for any team to overcome. The bright side is Wiggins, Lavine, Dieng and Muhammed look like they can be at least contributors if not starters for the next few years and the biggest glaring weakness on the team is also the deepest position in next year's draft (power forwards/center). Jahlil Okafor or Myles Turner would solve a lot of problems.

[ALessKosherScott]

This almost makes me feel bad for Love. Almost.

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12171458&ex_cid=espnapi_public

[Pius Jefferson]

Wiggins stat line tonight

 

31 pts 9 reb 4 ast 3 blocks 1 steal

[FattCrapps]

Interesting that it's in this thread as Love is one of the few players who they got by getting a lottery pick.  In 2008, they turned the #3 pick into Love after drafting OJ Mayo.  Other than that they've had just a couple of lottery picks - 1992 #3 (Laettner) and 2011 #2 (Derrick Williams).

 

Not once in the history of the franchise have they've gotten a better pick than they were supposed to. In 1992 and 2011 they had the worst record in the league.  ****'s rigged.

[biggentleben]

Not once in the history of the franchise have they've gotten a better pick than they were supposed to. In 1992 and 2011 they had the worst record in the league.  ****'s rigged.

 

You can be upset about the draft position or maximize the position you have.  The Timberwolves may have the worst overall drafting of any team since they entered the league.  Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but you would think once, just once, they would get the best possible player at their position in the draft.

[biggentleben]

So, I did the research after my last post.  In their entire franchise history, the Timberwolves have made three picks where there wasn't a player with more career win shares picked after their pick (and I'm including every second round pick as well), and two of those were Ty Lawson and Trevor Booker, who they immediately traded.

 

In doing this, I'd forgotten about this pick, but how good would Donatas Motiejunas look on this team right now, or ANY of the players acquired when they traded him away?  They moved Flynn and Motiejunas along with a pick for Brad Miller, Nikola Mirotic, Chandler Parsons, and a 1st rounder.  Unbelievable how poor their luck/development/scouting has been over the years, but this move is a great example.  Parsons or Mirotic would easily be starting on this team, but they were both traded as well.

[ashbury]

but you would think once, just once, they would get the best possible player at their position in the draft.

This serves to console me, when I pick up the morning newspaper and see that the team foolishly won another game thereby potentially robbing themselves of a chance at a few extra pingpong balls which would serve never to move them up in the order of picking in the draft anyway which they would squander in any case.  At least I think it consoles me; I'll have to check next time they win.

[ALessKosherScott]

So if you're the Wolves, do you want Russell, Okafor, Towns or Cauley-Stein?

 

I think I lean Towns.

[biggentleben]

So if you're the Wolves, do you want Russell, Okafor, Towns or Cauley-Stein?

 

I think I lean Towns.

 

Absolutely not Russell.  He should not even come into their conversation.

 

I guess it depends on where you want to go with the pick outside of that.  Okafor gives you the Kevin Love sort of player with offensive ability galore and a great knack for the rebound as well, but, though it's better than Love's, his defense isn't his strong suit.  Towns is a defensive stud, but may be more Samel Dalembert than Tyson Chandler as far as defensive stud centers.  Cauley-Stein is very intriguing.  He can play inside and out defensively, has a good offensive game, but he also has a very raw body and hasn't responded well to physical teams he's come against so far.  I think if you have #1, you take Okafor no question and let teams approach you about acquiring him. Outside of that, it's a decent question.

[ALessKosherScott]

I'm not sure I'd immediately say no to Russell. It seems like he's already what they're hoping Lavine would grow into. He'd slide Wiggins to small forward, but that would be a great defensive 1-3.

 

Okafor seems like he'd comp better to Al Jefferson than Love. Great inside scorer but no outside game. He strikes me as a safe bet to be good but the other three have a better chance at great.

 

I think you flopped Towns and Cauley-Stein. Towns is the guy who strikes me as having that Duncan/Garnett/Anthony Davis like interior presence and he's a bit more inside-outside where Cauley-Stein is a rim protector. Granted Towns has a bigger chance at flopping than Okafor or Russell.

 

Throw in Muniday and Myles Turner (who does strike me as a potential Love) and it's definitely a good year for a top-6 pick.

[kab21]

Am I the only one that finds the Wolves continued handling of Love as tacky?  This is coming from a team with 8 wins and the worst NBA record.

 

I have been concerned optimistic that Pek and Martin coming back would give the team a boost since I still don't believe that they are this bad but rather that injuries to the 3 veterans caused this level of ineptitude.  They beat the Celtics but lost to the 76ers.

 

It appears the Thad Young deal was an awful idea now.  Obvious to some initially but probably only because they wanted to completely tank from the beginning.  The problem is that this team has way too many small forwards and Thad Young isn't a capable big guy.

 

At least Wiggins is turning into something kind of awesome.

[biggentleben]

I'm not sure I'd immediately say no to Russell. It seems like he's already what they're hoping Lavine would grow into. He'd slide Wiggins to small forward, but that would be a great defensive 1-3.

 

Okafor seems like he'd comp better to Al Jefferson than Love. Great inside scorer but no outside game. He strikes me as a safe bet to be good but the other three have a better chance at great.

 

I think you flopped Towns and Cauley-Stein. Towns is the guy who strikes me as having that Duncan/Garnett/Anthony Davis like interior presence and he's a bit more inside-outside where Cauley-Stein is a rim protector. Granted Towns has a bigger chance at flopping than Okafor or Russell.

 

Throw in Muniday and Myles Turner (who does strike me as a potential Love) and it's definitely a good year for a top-6 pick.

 

They simply would have to move a number of early recent picks just to get Russell on the roster.  I didn't flop the two Kentucky players.  Here's what Chad Ford says about Cauley-Stein: "...as long as he continues to show more toughness and consistency, he's a lock for a top-10 pick. His ability to guard four or five positions on the floor is truly unique."

[kab21]

First winning streak of the season and 3-3 in their last 6.  Yes, it's dealing with a small sample size and they will still get destroyed by the western conference schedule but now that this team is healthy they aren't really this bad.  Let's just hope that it's too late to catch Utah/Orlando and fall out of the top 4 (record wise). 

[TheLeviathan]

Ricky Rubio looked like an actual difference maker against Memphis.  What's so frustrating about him is that he has to be able to do so little to go from what we've seen of him to a potentially elite player. (you know, hit a few open threes and make layups when he gets to the hoop) 

 

Let's hope it's a sign of good things to come.

[biggentleben]

Ricky Rubio looked like an actual difference maker against Memphis.  What's so frustrating about him is that he has to be able to do so little to go from what we've seen of him to a potentially elite player. (you know, hit a few open threes and make layups when he gets to the hoop) 

 

Let's hope it's a sign of good things to come.

 

Exactly this.  I would like nothing more than to be completely wrong on Rubio.

[kab21]

Never fear Wolves fans 12/13 games are against .500 or better teams.  After that they have 5/6 against lottery teams which will likely cement in their position (+/- 1 spot) near the end of the season.

 

It's sad that getting a top pick is so important to a franchise.  In baseball I don't really care much about draft position but it's different in basketball.

[amjgt]

In baseball it's more about the money that is allotted to a pick than the actual player picked.

[Shane Wahl]

I am happy that Cleveland is turning it around. I agree with kab21, I think the way the Wolves dealt with Love was just terrible. Tacky is a good word.

 

Now they have Wiggins, Dieng, and several injury-prone guys. Maybe Zach and Shabazz can get better and get consistent. Pekovic is pretty key, but might also be worth trying to score another top pick in the 2016 draft via trade (especially after Dieng's growth and the drafting of Okafor or Cauley-Stein (top two, in my view).

[biggentleben]

The problem is that they keep trading picks, first for Thad Young, and now Adrian Payne.  Ugh.

[Shane Wahl]

I didn't even hear about the Payne trade. I actually like him and thought the Wolves should have found a way to draft him.

 

But still. Trading away picks is not a good idea right now.

 

Gary Neal is terrible.

 

K-Mart needs to be traded to the Bulls or somebody.

[kab21]

The problem is that the Wolves are trading away 1st rd picks and getting back 2nd rd picks for veterans.

 

The Young trade has been disastrous since he can't really play PF.  I'm not sure the Payne trade is that bad if he's a legit big that can shoot.  The pick is lottery protected almost forever and he might be exactly what the Wolves need for the roster.  Gorgui and Pekovic don't seem to be able to play well together.  Bennett seems more like a bust and nobody else can play the 4.

 

I would be absolutely shocked if Pek is traded.  Nobody is picking up that contract with his injury concerns so the Wolves are stuck with him.  The same probably is true for Martin for at least another year.

[Shane Wahl]

The problem is that the Wolves are trading away 1st rd picks and getting back 2nd rd picks for veterans.

 

The Young trade has been disastrous since he can't really play PF.  I'm not sure the Payne trade is that bad if he's a legit big that can shoot.  The pick is lottery protected almost forever and he might be exactly what the Wolves need for the roster.  Gorgui and Pekovic don't seem to be able to play well together.  Bennett seems more like a bust and nobody else can play the 4.

 

I would be absolutely shocked if Pek is traded.  Nobody is picking up that contract with his injury concerns so the Wolves are stuck with him.  The same probably is true for Martin for at least another year.

 

Yeah I meant trading Pekovic next season to get a pick the following year. I don't know . . . I really like both Pekovic and Dieng. That duo could work out together a bit more with more practice, I think. At least for a little bit. It would have worked better with Brewer then playing at the three defensively . . .

 

The entire Rubio saga is an embarrassment for this team. And I like the guy, but still. Damn.

 

If I had time to analyze sports other than baseball more deeply, I would do a draft analysis for the league. I cannot imagine a more horrible team at drafting and developing players than the T-Wolves. And that is *from the beginning* somehow.

[biggentleben]

Yeah I meant trading Pekovic next season to get a pick the following year. I don't know . . . I really like both Pekovic and Dieng. That duo could work out together a bit more with more practice, I think. At least for a little bit. It would have worked better with Brewer then playing at the three defensively . . .

 

The entire Rubio saga is an embarrassment for this team. And I like the guy, but still. Damn.

 

If I had time to analyze sports other than baseball more deeply, I would do a draft analysis for the league. I cannot imagine a more horrible team at drafting and developing players than the T-Wolves. And that is *from the beginning* somehow.

 

I did this in this thread.  No other team has had less success picking the best player in the draft at their slot than the Timberwolves.  In fact, no one else comes close.  It's ridiculous.

[kab21]

I don't think Pek can even be traded next year for anything of value.  He will have something like 3/36 left.  Maybe the following season with 2 years left and some theoretical health during the next season.  The problem with Pek and Dieng is that neither has much of an outside shot so defenders can just clog the middle when both are on the floor.  Combine that with Wiggins and Muhammad not being true perimeter threats although Wiggins can shoot 3's.  Almost forgot to include Rubio in this...

 

I also disagree with amjgt.  Money, the draft and anything else in baseball is nowhere as close to the same as getting a top pick (sometimes the draft is 1 deep) for a franchise.  Getting Okafor next season transforms this team into a borderline playoff team (maybe in 2 years) in a normal western conference. 

[ALessKosherScott]

I also disagree with amjgt.  Money, the draft and anything else in baseball is nowhere as close to the same as getting a top pick (sometimes the draft is 1 deep) for a franchise.  Getting Okafor next season transforms this team into a borderline playoff team (maybe in 2 years) in a normal western conference. 

 

The bright side is though next year's draft isn't one player deep. The Wolves could move down as far as 8 and still walk away with a player that will help them. Personally, I still like the idea of Towns' shooting range and defense for the franchise long-term over Okafor to an extent. Although I agree Okafor is the safer pick if the Wolves wind up at one.

 

And I get the idea of the Payne trade. It's not exactly solid franchise building, but it's a lottery protected pick until 2020 and with most non-lotto first rounders you're looking for a guy who can play a role. The upside to Payne seems to be something of a Jared Sullinger type who can rebound and make you respect his outside shot. The Wolves really need that kind of guy (no matter which power forward they draft next year). And if Payne can't be that guy, maybe he can motivate Bennett to be him. The biggest problem is we've now sunk two mid-first round picks into finding it. But how valuable are mid-first round picks anyway?