Love Trade

[TheLeviathan]

With the Love trade due to be announced sometime in the next week, what are everyone's thoughts?

 

As of now here is the deal:

 

T-Wolves trade:  Kevin Love, Alexy Shved, and Luc Mbah a Moute

 

T-Wolves get:  Thaddeus Young, Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett.

 

In my opinion, Flip got quite a bit more back than I expected.  It's excellent quality and upside for spare parts and a guy that was bound to leave here.  I like it quite a bit.

[biggentleben]

The TWolves roster is really a weird arrangement right now.  There's really not 5 guys who are all best suited for one style of play unless you choose to do a fast-paced game and go really small.

 

A lot of the team's success current and future will hinge on LaVine and Bennett.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I didn't think the Wolves had a shot at getting a decent return for Love. If the trade is as advertised, it looks like they did just that. Kudos to them.

[biggentleben]

I didn't think the Wolves had a shot at getting a decent return for Love. If the trade is as advertised, it looks like they did just that. Kudos to them.

 

Exactly. They now have a bunch of desirable pieces if they choose to blow it up because they don't work together.

[DaveW]

Flip deserves an A+ for this trade. I liked Love, but he was gone. Wiggins is a potential stud, Young is a very solid PF and Bennett is sorta a wild card who has a ton of potential.

Good for flip.

[biggentleben]

Flip deserves an A+ for this trade. I liked Love, but he was gone. Wiggins is a potential stud, Young is a very solid PF and Bennett is sorta a wild card who has a ton of potential.

Good for flip.

 

For seemingly being over the barrel by Love's trade demands, Flip should get a huge amount of credit for the return in this deal.  He did give up Shved as well, so the Timberwolves will face competition this season for the whitest team in the NBA.

[kab21]

It's the best of a bad situation.  Kind of like the complete opposite of the Johan trade.

 

The important thing is that the Wolves took the best talent and will worry about where to play people later.  A sure way to lose a trade is to focus on needs.  The Wolves are bad and almost certainly not a playoff contender (in the west).  It's much better to have talent in that case. 

 

The trade looks particularly good since Philly gifted them Young in their pursuit of tanking.  I'm not a big fan of Bennett's potential but he could be solid. 

 

It will be interesting to see if there is any wheeling and dealing before the season opens.  There are a lot of players and only so many minutes to go around.  Holy crap there are a lot of mediocre veterans on this team.

[kab21]

So what combinations of players can work for the Wolves since they have to jettison several players before the season starts.

 

Can Rubio, Lavine, Wiggins, Young, Pekovic work together?  Is Pekovic a big clodder that just doesn't work despite being a really good player or is it something else (like the backcourt).  Can the Wolves mix other youngsters like Dieng, Robinson or Bennett into this somehow?  Are any of the veterans (Martin, Barea, Brewer, Budinger) decent fits even if they aren't longterm pieces?  Or are most of these getting sent elsewhere?

[biggentleben]

Pekovic does well passing for a post guy, so he could work well with guys who cut well to the hoop.  Of the vets, Martin actually fits with this group best in playing style, but having Barea around with Rubio's injury history would be very wise.  Bennett runs extremely well for a 4, so I could see some instances where they pull Pekovic for him, go small, and run the opposition to exhaustion, but the rest of Bennet's skillset is very raw.  I like the gambles on the roster that could either blow up huge or burn out fast, letting the decision be pretty easy where they go from here with these guys.

[TheLeviathan]

I think Pek/Young and Bennett/Dieng make nice front-court combinations.  Wiggins/Levine/Brewer/Martin should be able to man the wings.  That leaves Rubio and Williams at point.  

 

I think the roster should work out ok - it'll be an interesting and entertaining group.

[kab21]

Glen Taylor is a moron.

[biggentleben]

Glen Taylor is a moron.

 

But at least it seems like Flip can "control" him some.  Kahn was basically a puppet, and as we saw with McHale, if Taylor likes the person, no amount of poor performance will dissuade him from that loyalty.  Loyalty can be a good thing, as long as it betters your team, not inhibits it.

[kab21]

I'm talking about his public comments about Love.  He has to take the high road and not say anything or just mention some general BS about how what he did for the org.

[biggentleben]

I'm talking about his public comments about Love.  He has to take the high road and not say anything or just mention some general BS about how what he did for the org.

 

Well, yeah, but there are few owners who sound smart when they talk about the teams they own.

[ALessKosherScott]

So what combinations of players can work for the Wolves since they have to jettison several players before the season starts.

 

Can Rubio, Lavine, Wiggins, Young, Pekovic work together?  Is Pekovic a big clodder that just doesn't work despite being a really good player or is it something else (like the backcourt).  Can the Wolves mix other youngsters like Dieng, Robinson or Bennett into this somehow?  Are any of the veterans (Martin, Barea, Brewer, Budinger) decent fits even if they aren't longterm pieces?  Or are most of these getting sent elsewhere?

 

I doubt Lavine gets many minutes at first. He's too raw to throw to the proverbial Wolves right now. My two cents is you want a healthy split of the SG/SF minutes between Wiggins, Martin and Brewer with Wiggins and Brewer emphasizing a defensive lineup , Martin and Wiggins giving you better offense and Martin and Brewer working when you want Wiggins to sit and learn. You want Dieng to steal some of Pekovic's minutes to hopefully keep Pek healthy and because Dieng has a chance to be the great interior defender the team hasn't had since Garnett left town. With that said, you still need Pek around to score because the last T-Wolves team that was this weak offensively was coached by Bill Mussleman.

 

Outside of that, you have guys like Bennett and Budinger trying to play their way into the rotation. Mo Williams gets the backup PG minutes with Lavine getting the scraps at PG and SG. You have to get rid of Barea to open up a roster spot for the Little Big Dog though, and I'm not opposed to that thought.

[kab21]

Even with Bledsoe (if they get him) the TWolves can't make the playoffs but as a fan I applaud them for not outright tanking even if it means that they get stuck in the back half of the lottery.  It will be interesting to see what they would have to give up.

[TheLeviathan]

That is an interesting step - hard not to see it as a "no confidence" vote in Rubio.

[kab21]

It turns out that there was no real substance to the rumors.  The TWolves would need to do a sign and trade and they have nothing substantial to trade.  Lavine, Rubio or future picks is about it.  Other than that it's Wiggins (not going anywhere) or a pile of salary dumps. 

 

I think it was nothing more than a negotiating ploy with Rubio to get him to lower his demands for an extension.  It also puts them on the map with Bledsoe next offseason.

 

the suns are certainly in a pickle with Bledsoe.  I think bridges have been burned.

[ALessKosherScott]

Kind of an interesting preseason so far, where Little Big Dog has looked pretty solid, Budinger healthy, Bennett improved and Lavine like he's going to spend an awful lot of time in the D-League.

[Musk21]

Kind of an interesting preseason so far, where Little Big Dog has looked pretty solid, Budinger healthy, Bennett improved and Lavine like he's going to spend an awful lot of time in the D-League.

 

Should be interesting to see who the final cut will be.  Still rumblings that Budinger will be moved, but even at his salary I'd like to see how he can contribute now that he is finally healthy.

[ALessKosherScott]

Should be interesting to see who the final cut will be.  Still rumblings that Budinger will be moved, but even at his salary I'd like to see how he can contribute now that he is finally healthy.

 

I don't think you'd get value. Plus, if you're going to take dead aim on 35 wins this year having another option besides Kevin Martin who doesn't make you cringe when they shoot a three-pointer isn't a bad idea. If we're going to insist that Lavine wasn't a huge mistake right now, Barea is the best option to go. Though you may have to waive him outright.

[kab21]

Ricky Rubio - for better or worse

 

I don't think the Wolves had many options here.  Saving cap space is only important if you can sign FA's.  And Rubio is a pretty solid player but probably not a championship team leader.  That's a problem to face when the team is a playoff team though.

[biggentleben]

Ricky Rubio - for better or worse

 

I don't think the Wolves had many options here.  Saving cap space is only important if you can sign FA's.  And Rubio is a pretty solid player but probably not a championship team leader.  That's a problem to face when the team is a playoff team though.

 

I will continue to wish the TWolves still had the best of the three PGs they drafted that season - Ty Lawson.

[ALessKosherScott]

https://vine.co/v/OeO7OxawvMd

 

All the more reason Rubio is quickly becoming my favorite Wolf since Garnett.

[kab21]

So the Wolves tried to be mediocre and they have started out awful.  Injuries to 3/4 of their solid veterans is largely the reason and their return could result in a decent 2nd half though.

 

What are some thoughts on the young players?  I follow the boxscores but haven't seen much basketball this year.

 

Wiggins - nothing unexpected (good or bad) - There was an ESPN podcast a few weeks ago that touted his shooting ability due to his 50% 3 pt shooting at the time.  Since then he has gone 0fer and his shooting % from everywhere continues to sink.  There are a lot of reasons that someone could have a low shooting % but in the little that I have seen he doesn't have a soft touch from outside.

 

Lavine is playing and has his nights.  Thoughts on his play would be appreciated.

 

Dieng - doesn't do much on offense but looks good overall.

 

Muhammad has gone off since the Martin injury.  Is he really this good?  That Burke - Dieng - Muhammad trade is looking good now even if Burke is playing well.

 

Bennett is MIA lately.

 

GR3 gets an incomplete.

[biggentleben]

Bennett showed a lot of the athleticism that intrigued teams in his draft year, and all the lack of basketball brains that made him a very, very questionable #1 pick.  I still think with him healthy and LaVine and Wiggins to run with, the team could be something fun to watch.  I told someone the first time I saw video of him that I thought he could grow into a Dennis Rodman type due to his athletic ability, but you have to give yourself up to the 0-point, 14-rebound type of lines in order to be that guy, and Bennett still is looking to score first when he gets the ball.

 

Wiggins has a very streaky shot, and folks I know in Kansas said they noticed by the end of the season that when he had bad nights, there were obvious things off about his shooting form that night.  I've not seen enough of him to give a great evaluation of that part of things, but the streakiness that friends told me about in Kansas has certainly followed him to the Wolves.

 

LaVine reminds me on the court a lot of a young Terrell Brandon with obvious physical differences, but Brandon came into the league and took a few years to adapt to the pace of the league.  Brandon had a couple of good mentors in Mark Price and Steve Kerr, both of whom would be let go to eventually give Brandon more time, and I think Mo Williams could be that sort of mentor on the game for LaVine.  I have liked seeing his feel for the flow of the offense, but his defensive instincts are poor at best.

 

Muhammad is the one that has surprised me most.  I liked his athleticism in college, but I really thought he'd be a project type that'd take 3-4 years to mature, and with the Timberwolves on paper ready to compete in 2013-2014, I was hoping for a more immediate-impact guy.  Muhammad looked all of that last year when he even got on the court, but the buzz coming into the season was how much he'd grown on the court and how he may step up some this year already.  This has been more than stepping up.  He's shown to be a lot better shooter than I would have thought, someone who can create to get his own shot or pull defense away from someone like Wiggins and free him for a spot-up 3, and I've actually been very impressed with his defensive abilities.  He'll never be a rim protecter, though I am surprised at 0.1 blocks since he has been starting, but he seems to have good instincts off the ball and the length and speed to be potentially elite on the ball.  His footwork slips up sometimes, but you see flashes already of what could be a defender on caliber with the one the Wolves just traded away in Brewer.

 

Speaking of Brewer, I do think on this squad, he will be missed.  He was able to be a very good defender and play some point forward with a team easing in a young point guard.  Rubio to me should be trade fodder, if there's anything to get out of him at all, as I just don't know how he fits with this current group.  LaVine compliments Wiggins and Muhammad so well, and if Bennett can work into that running, athletic PF guy I envisioned when seeing him, a foursome of LaVine, Wiggins, Muhammad, and Bennett could be extremely exciting to watch for years to come.

[DaveW]

They need to completely tank and hope for a top 3 pick

[kab21]

They need to completely tank and hope for a top 3 pick

 

they have already lost to the Sixers.  What more do you want them to do?  but yes landing a top talent in the draft could change the franchise.

 

I'm pretty happy that the FO is actually trying to put a decent team out there and they are losing a lot.  I'm also happy to see many young guys establishing themselves. 

 

I'm not as convinced that Rubio needs to go or that Lavine is the replacement.  Pekovic needs to go so Gorgui can be the man but his contract and the relative non-need for centers around the league make him nearly untradeable.  Martin seems to complement these young players pretty well so I wouldn't mind if they kept him.

[biggentleben]

I'm not as convinced that Rubio needs to go or that Lavine is the replacement.  Pekovic needs to go so Gorgui can be the man but his contract and the relative non-need for centers around the league make him nearly untradeable.  Martin seems to complement these young players pretty well so I wouldn't mind if they kept him.

 

I wouldn't move Rubio for a bit, for sure.  Heck, if you can get Bennett up to par and Martin healthy, you could run a pretty solid 4-man shift on and off the court with Rubio, Wiggins, Muhammad, Martin, Young, LaVine, Deng, and Bennett making a team that could run teams to death with depth and talent.  It'd be nice to get an athletic guy who could protect the rim defensively in the draft.

[kab21]

I'm concerned that the Wolves are trying to be just like the Twins in their disregard of statistical analysis.  the Twins continually look for low K guys and then put together a terrible defense.  The Wolves can't shoot 3's (aside from the injured Martin) at a time when it makes sense to have 4 three point shooters on the floor.