Article: Today's Official Trade Deadline Discussion

[old nurse]

"Ryan is bad at his job, he couldn't trade the guy who sucks!"

 

When he's a guy you signed and he sucks you should shoulder some fault. 

Ryan said last winter he had to give Gardenhire a better team to work with. He admited he had to do a better job of bringing in players. Is a direct quote on what Ryan thinks of Correia now newcessary to satisy some of hte people here? What does that accomplish. When they signed Correia there was a quote  I rewcall reading thta they thought they saw some things they could improve on with Correia. What they thought did not improve him.  What good does it do for the team to bring that up? When they tried to get Garza after signing Nolasco and Hughes that should have yold you what they thought of the number 5 pitcher.

[nicksaviking]

 

D on the Suzuki extension - the other day TR said there were other things they valued besides framing, and mentioned durability. Well, hope they are ok with 1800 PAs at a .690 OPS and no added defensive value from the catching spot for the next three years. Suzuki just doesn't break and with $6m up for grabs, he most definitely won't.

Looking at the roster the last half decade, there appears to be ample evidence to indicate that they are indeed OK with that kind of production.  

[whydidnt]

Ryan said last winter he had to give Gardenhire a better team to work with. He admited he had to do a better job of bringing in players. Is a direct quote on what Ryan thinks of Correia now newcessary to satisy some of hte people here? What does that accomplish. When they signed Correia there was a quote  I rewcall reading thta they thought they saw some things they could improve on with Correia. What they thought did not improve him.  What good does it do for the team to bring that up? When they tried to get Garza after signing Nolasco and Hughes that should have yold you what they thought of the number 5 pitcher.

Well, he DIDN'T sign Garza, though did he. Correia wasn't event the 5th starter to start the year, was he? I don't expect him to say he did a poor job in signing Correia. However, he then went out and re-signed Pelfrey to a similar 2 year deal. Point is you can't use a defense of not dealing him because he sucks if you though he was good enough to warrant a 2 year deal to begin with. You can't have it both ways, it was either a bad decision to sign him, or a bad decision not to deal him now. What do you suppose the Twins could get for Pelfrey at this point? 

 

Not every decision a GM makes is going to turn out, heck a lot of them aren't, it's just the nature of the game. What's frustrating is when you make bad decisions, and then multiply them by doubling down on the guy you signed, or signing similar guys. Ryan has done that over the last 3 years. It's almost predictable. So in this case he made a bad decision on Correia, and hasn't been willing or able to correct that decision. 

[Brandon]

I am more happy than I thought I'd be with the Corriea signing.  I went from pure anger to almost tolerable.  However he needs to go now or very soon like after his next start a the latest. 

 

as far as grading he events of today:

Getting a Starting Pitcher with ability at a low cost for a 4th OF is amazing though we no longer have a backup CF again.  A++

 

Signing C Suzuki for 2 year 2 Million contract is A (that was the number floating around here for an extension)

 

Not trading Corriea or releasing him is an incomplete though the grade gets worse each start he makes here after.  Because his starts need to go to May and Meyer or I guess it could be about the draft order next season.  we need to loose more games to get a better draft spot next year. 

 

Willingham - I am indifferent on trading him.  I don't see a ready player to step in so I guess its more for the ability to loose games and save money for the draft pick next year or If TR can find another over pay.

 

Overall Terry Ryan gets an A in my book. 

 

 

I am shocked at how little the Rays got for Price.  They should have extracted some cash and a PTBNL from Seattle and Detroit each so they could get more prospects and operating cash.

[Mike Sixel]

I too cannot believe how little Tampa got.

[Willihammer]

I think it was pretty clearly tied to the deadline. When was the last time you heard of a guy involved in extension talks that died, was bandied about the rumor mill for two weeks, and then suddenly signed an extension within hours of the deadline?

 

When's the last time you heard of a guy signing an extension within hours of the deadline, period?

 

Most GMs are kinda busy that day and don't have the time to talk contracts with guys they don't plan to trade.

So what are you saying - that TR had a trade offer in hand and put an ultimatum on Suzuki? I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case but we have no evidence other than the timing, do we?

[Brock Beauchamp]

So what are you saying - that TR had a trade offer in hand and put an ultimatum on Suzuki? I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case but we have no evidence other than the timing, do we?

 

I don't know if Ryan had an offer in hand but it's not hard to believe he had every intention of trading Suzuki if Kurt wouldn't sign an extension.

[stringer bell]

I saw it 100 times about Suzuki--"sign him or trade him"--well they signed him. Getting Milone for Fuld is a win even if Milone only performs like a fifth starter. Now, why in the world have the Twins not submitted their lineup? Are they waiting for Vargas to get to the park? Have they traded someone else (Correia, Hammer) or does someone have an injury and Gardenhire doesn't know if he can go?

[Kwak]

A few toughts on the trade deadline.  1)  The scenario has changed.  Very few "prospects" for veterans-type trads.  It seems that team either value their "prospects" so high that tey aren't available--or they demand major league proven talent in  return.  2)  There had to have been an agreement to trade for Suzuki pending his either/or decision on the Twins offer.  Since we don't know (and probably never will!) what that trade was,  I can't comment on that deal.  I had posted before that the Twins should re-sign Suzuki and agree with the deal.  There just isn't much behind Suzuki.  3) Backflips over the Fuld trade is way too much.  Milhone is yet another from the Diamond/Albers/K. Johnson/Darnell mold.  He truly might have a good season in his quiver, but those results won't be repeatable.  Milhone will start at least two games for the Twins this season.  But, there is a 50% chance he is traded in the off-season.  Other teams need pitching.  4) someone posted that the Twins staff wasn't even average.  The Twins defense has statues and Iron Mikes in RF/LF and guys with their right foot pegged into the ground at 1B/3B the staff is punished by substandard play.  Let's not forget CF--there isn't anybody resembling a yong Hunter out there!  Plus, Twins official scorers are loathe to charge errors.

 

In short, Milhone's stats are helped by his teammates and the spacious OAK home field, while Twins pitchers are penalized by substandard defense to make a fair comparison between everybody.

 

The Twins require corner OFs who are at least average offensively and defensively for their respective positions.  I think some of those pitchers will be traded--especially when many are interchangeable.

[JB_Iowa]

I too cannot believe how little Tampa got.

 

And yet, here is Neyer on the subject:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/david-price-trade-rays-tigers-mariners-deadline-deal-073114?cmpid=tsmtw:fscom:mlbonfox

[JB_Iowa]

I saw it 100 times about Suzuki--"sign him or trade him"--well they signed him. Getting Milone for Fuld is a win even if Milone only performs like a fifth starter. Now, why in the world have the Twins not submitted their lineup? Are they waiting for Vargas to get to the park? Have they traded someone else (Correia, Hammer) or does someone have an injury and Gardenhire doesn't know if he can go?

 

They have.but it is on a picture and I don't want to retype everything.

 

Vargas wasn't there in time for BP on the field but I think will be there aby game time.

[drjim]

And yet, here is Neyer on the subject:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/david-price-trade-rays-tigers-mariners-deadline-deal-073114?cmpid=tsmtw:fscom:mlbonfox

 

This is the common defense, but splitting a great player into complementary pieces just generally doesn't work too well.

 

I think the Rays get a similar return in the offseason, that would be my complaint.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

I didn't know until yesterday about that unusual clause in Lackey's contract that triggered an extra year on his deal for $500,000 because he had Tommy John surgery. Gotta say, I'm kind of stumped that the Red Sox traded him, considering that they seem as likely to reload for next year as to rebuild from the ground.

[DaveW]

I give it an A just because I didn't expect any of Willingham correia etc combined to bring back as much value as milone has himself. Also love the Suzuki signing.

 

We can trade Willingham and correia for a PTBNL worst case scenario in Aug. Maybe we should hold onto dueling for another year as well....guy has been pretty lights out this year.

[DaveW]

Dueling is duensing....stupid autocorrect/beer

[DaveW]

Dueling is duensing....stupid autocorrect/beer

[Monkeypaws]

Looking back at Correia's career, he was a MF NL All-Star in 2011. 

 

All Star!

 

He is the Twin's Heatley, a true All -Star!

[AlwaysinModeration]

He was traded for the Orioles #3 prospect Eddie Rodriguez or something like that.  I am terrible at remembering names.  but the Twins tried to get him for Willingham last year.  I do remember that.

 

Was Andrew Miller more valuable to the Orioles than Kurt Suzuki? Because I personally would have love to trade Suzuki for Eduardo Rodriguez.

[stringer bell]

A few toughts on the trade deadline.  1)  The scenario has changed.  Very few "prospects" for veterans-type trads.  It seems that team either value their "prospects" so high that tey aren't available--or they demand major league proven talent in  return.  2)  There had to have been an agreement to trade for Suzuki pending his either/or decision on the Twins offer.  Since we don't know (and probably never will!) what that trade was,  I can't comment on that deal.  I had posted before that the Twins should re-sign Suzuki and agree with the deal.  There just isn't much behind Suzuki.  3) Backflips over the Fuld trade is way too much.  Milhone is yet another from the Diamond/Albers/K. Johnson/Darnell mold.  He truly might have a good season in his quiver, but those results won't be repeatable.  Milhone will start at least two games for the Twins this season.  But, there is a 50% chance he is traded in the off-season.  Other teams need pitching.  4) someone posted that the Twins staff wasn't even average.  The Twins defense has statues and Iron Mikes in RF/LF and guys with their right foot pegged into the ground at 1B/3B the staff is punished by substandard play.  Let's not forget CF--there isn't anybody resembling a yong Hunter out there!  Plus, Twins official scorers are loathe to charge errors.

 

In short, Milhone's stats are helped by his teammates and the spacious OAK home field, while Twins pitchers are penalized by substandard defense to make a fair comparison between everybody.

 

The Twins require corner OFs who are at least average offensively and defensively for their respective positions.  I think some of those pitchers will be traded--especially when many are interchangeable.

I agree that the combo of "pitch to contact" pitchers combined with a team that has range-challenged corner infielders and a lot of flux in center field isn't fair to the pitchers and not a formula for winning baseball. I always look at total runs allowed versus innings pitched as a fairer version of "runs suppressed" than team ERA. Pitching and defense are intertwined. The combination for the Twins hasn't been great in the last four years. Both better pitching and better, more athletic defenders will improve the team statistically and in the standings.

[Mike Sixel]

Who are these mythical better OF next year? Because they have zero in AA or AAA right now you could count on. Nyerere May have a point, but it just seems low.

[stringer bell]

I continue to believe that Byron Buxton will be the Twins center fielder by June 15. He is the real thing. He's healthy and will play in AA and then the AFL. Actually, I won't be surprised if the OF isn't very mobile on the corners next year, but they should have a much better staff and a better offense.

[old nurse]

Well, he DIDN'T sign Garza, though did he. Correia wasn't event the 5th starter to start the year, was he? I don't expect him to say he did a poor job in signing Correia. However, he then went out and re-signed Pelfrey to a similar 2 year deal. Point is you can't use a defense of not dealing him because he sucks if you though he was good enough to warrant a 2 year deal to begin with. You can't have it both ways, it was either a bad decision to sign him, or a bad decision not to deal him now. What do you suppose the Twins could get for Pelfrey at this point? 

 

Not every decision a GM makes is going to turn out, heck a lot of them aren't, it's just the nature of the game. What's frustrating is when you make bad decisions, and then multiply them by doubling down on the guy you signed, or signing similar guys. Ryan has done that over the last 3 years. It's almost predictable. So in this case he made a bad decision on Correia, and hasn't been willing or able to correct that decision. 

At some point and time you have to quit beating a dead horse. Correia is not the type of pitcher that gets traded mid season. He will be a 1 WAR for the season pitcher unless things go a lot worse for him. His compensation is line with that. That does not make it a good signing. The Twins needed somebody, that was who they could sign. When compared to the other starters in that price range, compared to what was his peer group in 2013, sadly he was not bad.

[beckmt]

twins are a team in change.  Hard to read the pitching except that Kansas City is also offense challenged, even more than the Twins. 

Have to give the Twins a "B" for the day.  Moves were small, but not unexpected. 

[DaveW]

Who are these mythical better OF next year? Because they have zero in AA or AAA right now you could count on. Nyerere May have a point, but it just seems low.

I think the Outfield sometime in June ends up being: Hicks-Buxton-Arcia, with the possibility of Hicks or Arcia being in AAA and having a veteran or a guy like Plouffe handling the other position.

 

TBH Hicks-Buxton-Arcia would be a pretty awesome OF defense.

[Mike Sixel]

Sure, if Hicks and Buxton are up here, that would be great.....

 

I think it could be Buxton-Santana-Hicks, frankly......with Arcia your 4th OF/DH. Or, make Hicks the 4th OF who gives all three a day off.....

 

Not that I am convinced on Santana, but until he fails, he looks like a success.

[DaveW]

Sure, if Hicks and Buxton are up here, that would be great.....

 

I think it could be Buxton-Santana-Hicks, frankly......with Arcia your 4th OF/DH. Or, make Hicks the 4th OF who gives all three a day off.....

 

Not that I am convinced on Santana, but until he fails, he looks like a success.

I think Santana's future with the team is at SS personally.

 

With the question marks in the OF, I would think the Twins will take a pretty hard run at Torii Hunter to hold down one of the corner OF spots, which I would be a big fan of. I guess they could always make a run at a Melky Cabrera type, but I am guessing they would have to give him 3-4 years. Hopefully Hunter would be willing to come back to Minnesota for a year or two.

[Mike Sixel]

I think they want Polanco to be the SS. Maybe Santana is Ben Zobrist?

[Mike Sixel]

Torii Hunter is terrible right now. I don't get why people keep typing his name.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Torii Hunter is terrible right now. I don't get why people keep typing his name.

His bat seems OK, but the metrics are grading his glove as pretty terrible that last two years.  I could see his bat falling quickly too as he leaves a good hitting lineup.  Probably shouldn't be anything more than a stopgap DH, assuming he's willing to play for cheap.

 

Same goes for defending NL batting champ Michael Cuddyer, really.