Joe Mauer hurt?

[darin617]

Just wondering if anyone has heard that the reason Joe Mauer is slumping is because he is hurt and playing through it. I am not trying to start a joke of a post. A friend of mine told me he heard that listening to Mike Max. So I am just looking for any information if anyone else has heard the same.

[curt1965]

I haven't heard anything, but I was thinking the same thing. As an old retired guy, I watch nearly every game, and can't remember the last time he crushed anything to RF.

[Bark's Lounge]

In a weird kind of way, I hope he is hurt, not because I want him to be, but because of the substandard results this season, and that could lend some answers to the lackluster Mauer campaign.

 

I really believed that Mauer would have an exceptional season at the plate this year, given that he isn't catching anymore - unfortunately, it has been quite the opposite.

 

Maybe Joe is battling the after effects of a serious concussion or maybe the wear and tare of 10 years of catching in the big leagues have caught to him and he is finished as a productive player. I do not know the answers to these questions - but something is amiss or going haywire. (Shrug?)

[DocBauer]

I'm sad to say I think he's still suffering from post concussion. I have no proof or inside information, simply stating what I think based on results and, fair or not, comments from Mornie speaking about his own experience.

[Danchat]

I really doubt he's hurt. They might eventually invent an injury, but I hope they just try to get him out of this prolonged slump. I don't think Mauer is suffering from post-concussion effects... I'm not a professional on concussions, but if they saw anything signs from Mauer, Gardy and the staff would shut him down immediately. If they exist, Mauer is hiding the symptoms really well.

[Cris E]

He's getting older, maybe he needs glasses.

 

Seriously, I would not be surprised, but I also wonder if he's disproportionately affected by the new craze of video gme defensive alignments. He pulls grounds thru second and pushes flies over third with a methodical precision that has led to great success. But they're taking a lot of that away by playing LF on the line and SS at second base. Healthy or not, he's got to start spraying the ball around the field more.

[jokin]

He's getting older, maybe he needs glasses.

 

Seriously, I would not be surprised, but I also wonder if he's disproportionately affected by the new craze of video gme defensive alignments. He pulls grounds thru second and pushes flies over third with a methodical precision that has led to great success. But they're taking a lot of that away by playing LF on the line and SS at second base. Healthy or not, he's got to start spraying the ball around the field more.

 

He wears glasses in the clubhouse....certainly, this would have been the first thing that is checked out in a case like this, right?

[Shane Wahl]

He is batting like a very different player, so something is up.

[howeda7]

He wears glasses in the clubhouse....certainly, this would have been the first thing that is checked out in a case like this, right?

 

I've wondered this too. Then I think, the Twins may be incompetent with injuries, but this isn't Major League....right?

[blairpaul715]

Or maybe he is content with life, wife, kids, money...........just no need to push for anything extra, he proved what he could for the contract..........not saying it is so, but you see it alot, when players have little or no incentive(contract) to keep pushing hard........some players play hard for the contract, some play hard for the LOVE of the game........again not saying Joe does or doesn't love the game, but when he shows no emotion it is hard to know if he loves the game or not. I think we will know the true test when he is done with this contract at age 35, will he want to play past that????

[cgreuling]

I've wondered about concussion effects too, does anyone know how much, if any, effect it could have on one's depth perception? I haven't watched every game but a few times I've seen Joe not quite get to a foul pop fly by, what looks like, misjudging where its coming down. Could be sun related or any number of things, but depth perception issues could explain the higher number of swing-and-misses we've seen this year.

 

Again, it's all speculation but after the years of taking a beating by the local media and fans for being "soft" maybe he's trying to play through (and hide) something to shed that label cause there's no "catching is tough on the body" playing first base.

[Beezer07]

Or maybe he is content with life, wife, kids, money...........just no need to push for anything extra, he proved what he could for the contract..........not saying it is so, but you see it alot, when players have little or no incentive(contract) to keep pushing hard........some players play hard for the contract, some play hard for the LOVE of the game........again not saying Joe does or doesn't love the game, but when he shows no emotion it is hard to know if he loves the game or not. I think we will know the true test when he is done with this contract at age 35, will he want to play past that????

 

No amount of "not saying" will hide the fact that you're calling him out for being lazy and not caring on the basis of assumptions about his personal life and his personality. Pretty unfair.

 

I think it's lingering concussion symptoms. It seems as if a baseball player can be "cleared" to come back from concussion on the basis of tests that aren't designed to determine if an elite athlete can still see/recognize a tiny white ball flying 90 mph. He'll get back eventually, but I'm not sure there's anything that can be done except be patient and trust in the 10 previous years of success he's had.

[Marta Shearing]

Or maybe he is content with life, wife, kids, money...........just no need to push for anything extra, he proved what he could for the contract..........not saying it is so, but you see it alot, when players have little or no incentive(contract) to keep pushing hard........some players play hard for the contract, some play hard for the LOVE of the game........again not saying Joe does or doesn't love the game, but when he shows no emotion it is hard to know if he loves the game or not. I think we will know the true test when he is done with this contract at age 35, will he want to play past that????

I feel the same way. I will come out and say I don't believe he had, or ever had, a passion/love for the game. All these years he's taken off day games after a night game when at the least he could have played DH.

 

The topper for me was a few years ago when he didn't play the Sunday before the all-star game, presumably to rest him up for the grueling all-star week. I believe the Twins lost to Detroit that sunday 3-2.

 

Regardless of what Gardy or Mauer have told us, playing DH is pretty much the same as a day off. And over the years every game he wasn't catching, we had to have our best hitter in the lineup at DH.

[gunnarthor]

Or maybe he is content with life, wife, kids, money...........just no need to push for anything extra, he proved what he could for the contract..........not saying it is so, but you see it alot, when players have little or no incentive(contract) to keep pushing hard........some players play hard for the contract, some play hard for the LOVE of the game........again not saying Joe does or doesn't love the game, but when he shows no emotion it is hard to know if he loves the game or not. I think we will know the true test when he is done with this contract at age 35, will he want to play past that????

 

Man, I hate posts like this. Mauer was the best prospect in baseball, then he became the best player in baseball. He didn't do that b/c he wanted a contract. He doesn't dive to tag out Gardner at the plate if he isn't playing hard. He's apparently a nice quiet guy, that shouldn't be looked at as a weakness.

[DaveW]

I feel the same way. I will come out and say I don't believe he had, or ever had, a passion/love for the game. All these years he's taken off day games after a night game when at the least he could have played DH.

 

The topper for me was a few years ago when he didn't play the Sunday before the all-star game, presumably to rest him up for the grueling all-star week. I believe the Twins lost to Detroit that sunday 3-2.

 

Regardless of what Gardy or Mauer have told us, playing DH is pretty much the same as a day off. And over the years every game he wasn't catching, we had to have our best hitter in the lineup at DH.

 

I surely hope you don't truly believe this and are just blowing off steam.

 

I can assure you Mauer is very passionate about the game, the team and his own personal game, I have a biz partner of mine who coached him in basketball growing up and knows the family well (still keeps in touch) he has said nothing less then that Mauer is a class act/great guy who works as hard as anyone to remain an elite player.

 

As far as his struggles this year, it wouldn't shock me if he had some sort of significant injury, I give him credit for keeping his head up, at the end of the day it has been a down year for him, but at least he is conituing to get on base. Ideally he gets "well" soon, if he comes back to his normal self this lineup suddenly looks rather strong (at least the top half)

 

As far as him taking days off after catching.....every catcher has to do that, there might not be a more grueling position in all of sports then it is to be an every day catcher. Often times he was at the top of the league for games caught in a season. Additionally playing DH is not the same as taking a day off, physically it is less demanding for sure, however I think you are truly underestimating the mental capacity it takes to step in against major league pitchers 3-4 times a game.

 

Mauer has better stats then guys like Jeter and Puckett this far into his career, its absolutely insane that people spew this anti Mauer garbage on a regular basis.

[jokin]

No amount of "not saying" will hide the fact that you're calling him out for being lazy and not caring on the basis of assumptions about his personal life and his personality. Pretty unfair.

 

I think it's lingering concussion symptoms. It seems as if a baseball player can be "cleared" to come back from concussion on the basis of tests that aren't designed to determine if an elite athlete can still see/recognize a tiny white ball flying 90 mph. He'll get back eventually, but I'm not sure there's anything that can be done except be patient and trust in the 10 previous years of success he's had.

 

Logically speaking, this makes the most sense, but then, why is he cleared to play if there is a clear and present danger to his health by playing? Morneau's lingering concussion symptoms would seem to be the guide hiere....they lingered for years, and his performance suffered because of it ( fully acknowledging that he had other injuries, as well). Granted, each concussion is different...but...at what point is shutting Mauer down for a period of time the most logical option?...For both his own well-being and what's best for the team?

[zenser]

I kind of hope it is an injury or something to do with lingering concussion symptoms too. He isn't the Joe Mauer of old. Maybe it is just me, but I am noticing more swings and misses from him. It seems like he used to take longer at bats in the past and would work counts better by being able to foul boarder line pitches off. Now, I am not seeing that. I don't have stats to back that.

[D. Hocking]

I have heard a few players say he is very competitive and more intense during games and behind the scenes than his public persona suggests. I think he has a passion for the game.

 

If he was hitting .285 I would say it could be age or defensive shifts etc., but the drop is just too much not to think something else is going wrong. Esp., since he was having a good year prior to the concussion and maybe his best year defensively in years. It just seems to much of a coincidence to not at least consider that the concussion is not effecting things. He took the hit in August and was feeling symptoms well into November. Even if he is not feeling overt symptoms now, it is certainly feasible to think his reflexes and/or depth perception are still not quite what they were before (esp. after watching Justin three years after his concussion still struggling - and to a lesser extent, Span never seemed quite the same).

 

I have also heard enough people say there is something visibly different when watching his at bats to make me think there is something physical going on.

[gunnarthor]

I think it's his back. Souhan's article suggested it was a lot more than "back spasms" and, if his back is tender, than a full torque swing might not feel that great. Maybe he's trying to battle through it instead of taking a DL trip. I usually don't rip on the Twins (enough people have that covered) but one thing they sometimes push too much is playing through pain - they basically resigned Capps b/c he played thru a wrist injury instead of going to the DL. And with all the crap he got in 2011 maybe Mauer's determined to stay off the DL.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I feel the same way. I will come out and say I don't believe he had, or ever had, a passion/love for the game. All these years he's taken off day games after a night game when at the least he could have played DH.

 

The topper for me was a few years ago when he didn't play the Sunday before the all-star game, presumably to rest him up for the grueling all-star week. I believe the Twins lost to Detroit that sunday 3-2.

 

Regardless of what Gardy or Mauer have told us, playing DH is pretty much the same as a day off. And over the years every game he wasn't catching, we had to have our best hitter in the lineup at DH.

 

Becoming the best player in baseball (2009) happens without passion and is often the result of dumb luck.

 

He's better at baseball than anything any of us will do in our lives, period. It's absurd to believe he achieved that lofty mark without passion for the sport.

 

A guy doesn't need to yell and scream to have passion for something.

[Boom Boom]

I don't think it's the back. Max and Souhan are just speculating. If the back is still a problem, the Twins probably would have mentioned it since his last DL trip.

 

Maybe it has to do with the concussion, but how can we know?

 

How do we know that the reason it took Morneau so many years to get back to form is that he finally recovered? Maybe he had already recovered and just slumped badly in the meantime.

 

Maybe Mauer's just playing badly. Until someone in the Twins gives us reason to believe otherwise, that's my assumption.

[Squirrel]

 

Maybe it has to do with the concussion, but how can we know?

 

How do we know that the reason it took Morneau so many years to get back to form is that he finally recovered? Maybe he had already recovered and just slumped badly in the meantime.

 

 

Lots of speculation all around. It seems a mystery. But I think many read this article and thread and started wondering if Joe was going through some of what Morneau did. Whether or not that's the answer is anybody's guess.

[kblack1011]

Everytime they ask about injuries, they say healthy and there would be no reason to hide an injury. Even before the concussion last year, you could start seeing some signs of a decline. It used to seem like he had very few holes in his swing, but last year his strike outs increased and his hitting with RISP dropped from a career average of .340 to .247 (this year it's down to .150). It looks like pitchers have found a weakness. It happens with age and it seems early for Mauer to fall into this, but maybe the expectation should be that of a .280 hitter, not a .320 hitter.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Lots of speculation all around. It seems a mystery. But I think many read this article and thread and started wondering if Joe was going through some of what Morneau did. Whether or not that's the answer is anybody's guess.

 

Going into the season, I had the attitude "the Twins can't possibly be that unlucky on the concussion front to see Joe falter like other players have in recent years". In the past decade, they've had three guys go down for obscene amounts of time due to concussion-related symptoms (Koskie, Morneau, Span). I don't follow other teams that closely but the Twins must have the worst luck with concussions in MLB.

 

They were due for a typical concussion bounce-back with Mauer. It's pretty damned frustrating that Joe might be suffering from the same ailments previous Twins suffered from in the past ten years.

 

Aggravating. This team just can't catch a break.

[Marta Shearing]

Becoming the best player in baseball (2009) happens without passion and is often the result of dumb luck.

 

He's better at baseball than anything any of us will do in our lives, period. It's absurd to believe he achieved that lofty mark without passion for the sport.

 

A guy doesn't need to yell and scream to have passion for something.

I shouldn't say he's never had a passion for the game, but I think over time he's gradually losing it. It has nothing to do with him not being a rah rah guy. And I agree with the other poster. Some of it stems from getting paid. It's human nature. I just didn't think he'd succumb to it.

[DaveW]

Some of it stems from getting paid. It's human nature. I just didn't think he'd succumb to it.

He signed that massive contract like 4 years ago at this point, and actually had out performed his career averages in 2012 and 2013, it is abundantly clear to me he just got complacent after he got paid....

[Brock Beauchamp]

I shouldn't say he's never had a passion for the game, but I think over time he's gradually losing it. It has nothing to do with him not being a rah rah guy. And I agree with the other poster. Some of it stems from getting paid. It's human nature. I just didn't think he'd succumb to it.

 

He's had a couple of his better seasons since getting paid (2010 and 2013).

 

Catching is really hard. I think it's really unfair to say that a guy who has posted 5 WAR seasons of 5+ - two of those coming since getting paid - doesn't have passion for the game.

 

Joe can be a bit of a robot out there. It's a large part of how he prepares for and plays the game of baseball. Let's not confuse that with a lack of passion to win or play the game.

[JB_Iowa]

Lots of speculation all around. It seems a mystery. But I think many read this article and thread and started wondering if Joe was going through some of what Morneau did. Whether or not that's the answer is anybody's guess.

 

Thanks for the reminder, ChiTown.

 

The thing that strikes me is that w/post-concussion syndrome, it isn't necessarily a case of "healthy" vs "not healthy".

 

It actually seems to be more of a case of post-concussion syndrome possibly making Joe or Justin (or another ballplayer) more like the rest of us mortals.

 

I have to think that part of what makes elite players elite are their reaction times and how they track the ball (From the SI article: When you have post-concussion syndrome, when you're still symptomatic and still haven't completely healed, very commonly reaction times are slow [and] your eyes do not track with the same coordination and speed. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20140602/justin-morneau-colorado-rockies/#ixzz356a2qQTG)

 

It seems to me that we can be talking about very, very small degrees of impairment that might have a significant impact. And that they may, in fact, be hard to measure (or even hard for the player to detect). Yet with an elite player, it may have a big impact.

[TheLeviathan]

He signed that massive contract like 4 years ago at this point, and actually had out performed his career averages in 2012 and 2013, it is abundantly clear to me he just got complacent after he got paid....

 

2012 was career average almost exactly. (Which is kind of freaky) 2013 he outperformed it, though.

 

I hate Mauer conversations, rarely can we go on without someone becoming his cheerleader and someone becoming a character assassin.

 

I know this much - 2014 Mauer at 1B has a lot of plates of crow ready to be served at this pace.

[Lefty74]

I am in the camp that believes the concussion issue is lingering. With that said, I have to believe the Twins have done extensive work trying to figure that out--Joe is the teams highest paid asset. The fact they haven't said anything could mean the Docs are saying he's good to go.

 

Most concerning to me are the strikeouts and what appears to be an unwillingness on Joe's part to make pitchers pay for throwing strike 1 right down the middle of the plate. He's 6'5" 225 and he can't turn on an inside fastball and drive it out of the park? The shift has hurt him a lot, but I think he needs to modify his game plan before he'll see better results.