Gardenhire's next target. Is it Pinto?

[gunnarthor]

Yet....it seems to be getting close to yet.

 

It's arguable that you could get him down in Rochester, playing every day and brushing up and applying what he's learned....meanwhile, reinvigorating his bat... so that when Suzuki has his inevitable drop-off, Pinto is ready to step into a bigger role with the Twins.

Yeah, and I would have no problem with that, either. (I might prefer May/Meyer replacing Deduno today though).

[pierre75275]

If you send down pinto who do u bring up? Fryer or hermann? I guess herman if u go with 13 pitchers..

[jokin]

Yeah, and I would have no problem with that, either. (I might prefer May/Meyer replacing Deduno today though).

 

Heh, absolutely right. (For that matter, I'd prefer May pitching "today" in Toronto instead of Correia).

[DaveW]

This thread is strange. Gardy clearly likes Pinto and has played him a good amount. However he is spot on by saying that Pinto needs to step it up either defensively (to stick at C) or offensively (to stick as a DH/part time C)

[Otto von Ballpark]

This thread is strange. Gardy clearly likes Pinto and has played him a good amount. However he is spot on by saying that Pinto needs to step it up either defensively (to stick at C) or offensively (to stick as a DH/part time C)

 

To be fair, they've kinda boxed Pinto in too. He hasn't been getting many reps at DH or C, and he is only going to get less with Morales in the fold. As I mentioned upthread, he's already been reduced to a 260 PA/season pace the last month. He's raked the last few years, but that was with 500-600 PA seasons. I imagine it's a difficult transition.

 

I guess I'd frame it less that he's "Gardy's next target" but that Pinto is in a tough situation. (And Gardy & the Twins are in a tough situation too, if they want Pinto to succeed but still want to win this year.)

[DuluthFan]

If Pinto is on the major league roster, matching him up with Coreia and Deduno is the perfect way for him to develop his catching skills. He would get more chances per start to work on his catching, blocking, throwing skills. If he is matched up with pitchers that don't need the extra help from their catcher, he will not get better. Ideally he should be working on his defensive skills at the minor league level where the development of players should done, not at the major league level.

 

As far as Pinto being the next franchise catcher, consider that if Mauer had not suffered his concussion he would still be the starting catcher for the next couple years. Pinto would have been at best a backup for the next couple of years if not still at AAA. The Twins drafted five(?) catchers a couple of years ago. If Mauer had played out his career at catcher, it would have been one of those players who would be projected as the next franchise catcher, not Pinto.

 

Right now Pinto is not hitting. He is also pretty bad defensively. If he was hitting better, you could overlook his defensive lapses since he could contribute offensively. If your catcher can't hit, he should at least be able to contribute defensively. Right now, Fryer would be a better fit for this Twins team. Suzuki is playing well enough to start most of the games. Fryer is a good defensive catcher who can fill in while Pinto gets more time to develop his defensive skills at AAA. That is why Fryer is still on the 40 man roster, to provide defensive depth at catcher. It won't hurt his development to sit behind Suzuki and it will help Pinto to play more often at AAA to both work on his defense and get out of his current batting slump.

[DJL44]

Josmil Pinto has caught nearly 400 games at the major and minor league levels and is 25 years old. If he doesn't have the skill to catch at the major league level RIGHT NOW he's very unlikely to acquire it. This should be his peak age for athletic ability.

[Dr. Evil]

I think it's pretty simple. The manager's job is to try and win games with the 25 guys at his disposal. For the time being, Suzuki is hotter than Pinto. Secondly, I don't believe that the Twins are doing Pinto and Hicks any horrible disservice by having them on the bench with the big club. That part of it is a bit overblown IMHO. They are on the cusp and they will get there. Both are the club's next best options at their positions. I can't see tossing them in there in situations where Gardy clearly thinks the other guy gives the team a better chance to win. Maybe you do that in the minors but not in the bigs. Yes we are sort of in a pennant race and there are benefits to both of them being part of that while fighting for playing time and maybe in Hick's case generating a little fire in his belly every time Santana trots out to center field.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

That's what AAA is for. Given that the Twins just signed Morales, we're no longer in a total rebuild mode, where you can give up games to develop players.

 

When was this?

[jokin]

When was this?

 

Ummm, that would be....never?

[Siehbiscuit]

Man I wish we had Drew Butera back!

[curt1965]

I don't get this "poor defensively." Will somebody please explain. Not throwing out runners? Are you kidding me? I was at Sunday's game, and the Astro runners were 3/4 the way to 2nd when Pinto caught the ball. I get the argument that he does not deserve to play, or that he should be playing more regardless, but-IMO- he'll be OK behind the plate.

[Siehbiscuit]

Actually, send Pinto to AAA and let him play everyday. Suzuki is playing well and hopefully he can maintain. I'm all for versatility, but being bad or average at a lot of things doesn't make you valuable (Herrmann). Call up a good defensive catcher to be a backup and only a back up catcher. That way Gardy doesn't have to even think about his lineup card, but can just get some consistency in it. Fryer would be fine. If something happens to Suzuki, call up Pinto to be the everyday guy.

[Halsey Hall]

Cracks me up that someone always thinks Gardy has to have someone to throw under the bus.

[jokin]

Cracks me up that someone always thinks Gardy has to have someone to throw under the bus.

 

Then you haven't been in the hallway on the way to the Twins' pressroom:

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I don't get this "poor defensively." Will somebody please explain. Not throwing out runners? Are you kidding me? I was at Sunday's game, and the Astro runners were 3/4 the way to 2nd when Pinto caught the ball. I get the argument that he does not deserve to play, or that he should be playing more regardless, but-IMO- he'll be OK behind the plate.

 

This is could be a valid point. Whether or not Deduno is effective at holding runners. Or maybe the coaches in the dugout aren't sending Pinto the right signals at the right times.

[notoriousgod71]

Pinto reminds me of Ramon Castro in his plate approach and skill set. Castro was never a regular, but we are all hoping Pinto will be.

[Guest USAFChief]

I don't get this "poor defensively." ... I was at Sunday's game, and the Astro runners were 3/4 the way to 2nd when Pinto caught the ball.

It could be both. He hasn't had a lot of opportunities to throw out runners, and he's pretty slow and innacurate throwing on top of it.

[stringer bell]

I think that Pinto can be a regular on a contending team. Also, I think his bat will be better than his defense. The key is for him to get as good as he can with his receiving and pitcher-handling skills. He will be a decent hitter.

[stringer bell]

Further, on Pinto's defense, he works hard and has a strong enough arm to be adequate. His throwing mechanics are messed up right now and I think it's hard to work something like that in Josmil's current role.

[Pius Jefferson]

Unless you're like Mackey Sasser and can't throw the ball to second base. I don't think throwing out runners is a fair way to determine a catchers defensive value.

[mrmpls]

IT should be mauer. why wont gardy move him down to 6-7 in the order. till he can at least MAYBE get a hit or drive in a run, its getting beyond insane watching this the last few weeks!!

Josmil Pinto will be the next young player Ron Gardenhire starts exposing in his press conferences.

 

Look at his use this year. What young catcher could have been successful with the way Pinto has been used?

 

Why take your developing catcher and use him primarily with a pitcher who is among the most difficult to catch in the majors? How can you work on your technique when catching Sam Deduno is different than catching any other pitcher? The Twins have a veteran in Suzuki that should be working with Deduno. Gardenhire wouldn't do that to a veteran.

 

He isn't hitting recently. Playing twice a week, what else can you expect from a young player? He needs consistent at bats

 

Gardenhire set up Pinto for failure and now I expect him to o start implying that he needs to go down and work.

 

The front office has provided Gardenhire with the veterans he loves. They have used a franchise record number of players in their 30s. The team needs to respond with wins this year.

[DocBauer]

Once again, similar to a thread a few days ago concerning Gardy speaking about Correia and the kids in Rochester, I see Gardy just being his normal, straight and candid self. He obviously likes Pinto and has said as much. He kept him out of ST, still has him, and Pinto doesn't exactly have splinters in his pants. Now, Pinto DOES has things to work on, this is true. And it is debatable if he should get to play every day at Rochester. Considering his bat and bat potential, and what little Ive seen of him defensively, I see an average C myself. He has a good strong arm, and did a good job in the minors of throwing runners out. But the guy on the mound has something to do with that too.

 

I see Pinto as a good to very good bat at C who will be solid, but nothing approaching a gold glover. And that's OK. I also agree that there is a lot more to being a solid catcher than just thrown out %. I don't know, Suzuki is playing well, no doubt. Having one of his best seasons. I still think Pinto can learn a lot up here from watching and working with Suzuki and Steinbach. But he needs development, and it's a long season. Suzuki needs time off too. I feel if Gardy would just run him out there 3 days out of 7 we'd end up with the best of both worlds.

 

And again, I don't think anyone is being thrown under the bus here. The Twins and Gardy have been showing far more patience of late with younger players. They were patient and rewarded with Dozier and Plouffe. Even if he was handled poorly, they've been patient almost to a fault some would say with Hicks. Almost everyone had convinced themselves Gibson was going to Rochester to begin the season, but no, and look what he's been doing. Thielbar had a couple rough outings a few weeks ago and they stuck with him. If I could complain about anything/anyone it would be Tonkin. Despite his struggles, he was getting strikes on guys and getting outs. But he was having trouble finishing them off all of a sudden. If it wasn't for Guerrier's opt out date, they might have given Tonkin a little more time.

 

A little confused about the seeming "anti-winning" attitude. We all want the Twins to be good, win, and contend. Now, I don't know if this years team can truly contend, but isn't winning kind of a good thing? But the team can only improve and prepare for the future by promoting a bunch of talented youngsters, toss out the season and do what the Astros have done the past few years? Lose, lose big and lose often? Haven't we had enough of that already? Why can't we bring along the youngsters we have, promote some more the second half, and plug in a few decent veterans and enjoy some winning at the same time? I don't know about you, but I'd rather play good ball, win some, and plug in youngsters in to a positive environment.

[Kwak]

Some of what is discussed here was covered in another thread--"Half-In, Half-Out". It is obvious that Gardenhire was promised "better players" given the large number of veterans signed. It seems reasonable to conclude for this expenditure that are performance metrics that must be met. Pinto has made too many throwing errors on base-stealers to rate him as anyone better than "adequate at most" defensively. He does have power, but inadequate ABs negate that--but, Suzuki has hit way better than expected and justifiably is starting most of the games. Wins must be obtained, and that means Suzuki starts given his productivity. The real problem, as I see it, is the Twins are content with being a 75-85 win team and thus are more concerned with "not stinking now", than in developing young talent to win many more games in the future. Or "Half-In, Half-Out".

[diehardtwinsfan]

AAA is a development league. It's pretty clear that Pinto isn't ready to catch at the ML-level everyday. Again, do those skills he needs to be successful necessarily need to be developed at the ML-level or can they be developed at AAA?

 

If it was his bat that needed exposure, I'd be with you that exposure to ML pitching would help, but that his deficiencies are defensive, what he needs is games behind the plate, not exposure to elite competition.

 

Pretty much this. I should note that Gardy's comments haven't exactly thrown him under the bus. They are accurate statements. The issue I have is what will fix them. I don't see sitting on the bench in MLB being the solution to those problems. He needs to play more. Send him down and call up Fryer. I have no issue with that, especially given how sparsely he's playing.