Wait . . . What did Gardy just say?

[jokin]

If people think leaving KY in the rotation is a good idea, fine with me. I have no interest in debating this anymore. Good luck winning those games.

 

If the argument is that young players struggle when they first come up, that seems like an argument for calling them up sooner, so that next year, they are good.

 

Bingo! Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

[zchrz]

So the sooner they are up, the sooner they can adjust and contribute, I would think. I do agree that fans over rate prospects, but it it's impossible to be worse than the worst.....

 

Idk whats ole Vance up to these days?

[The Wise One]

I've followed baseball since 1961, and there have been plenty of Terry Felton types. This generally happens because replacements aren't available. I understand the impatience to make a move, since we have what appear to be good alternatives, but I also can accept the possibility that giving Correia every last chance to right the ship may not be so ridiculous. Maybe they see things that lead them to believe the AA guys would struggle here, or maybe they they think Correia isn't that far from getting on track to where he was last year, when we would have been pleased with him as our 5th best starter.

 

ANyway, back to what Gardy said. I believe most fans, like me, would regard his comments as having been fairly innocuous, a little informative about the alternatives, and and not at all disparaging about the guys in AAA.

 

The Twin base their opinions on how a pitcher throws in the minor league and not their statistics?

[The Wise One]

He's the worst qualifying pitcher in ERA. How bad does he have to be before replacing him is prudent?

 

.

 

Franklin Morales appreciates your eyesight.

ERA as the definative statistic for pitching? Really? Why not argue wins and losses define the pitcher? I am not defending Correia, but kind of irritated that poor arguements on this thread.

 

Did you you look who had the third worst qualified pitcher ERA and if so shouldn't this thread be about getting rid of 2 underperforming starters?

[TheLeviathan]

Franklin Morales appreciates your eyesight.

ERA as the definative statistic for pitching? Really? Why not argue wins and losses define the pitcher? I am not defending Correia, but kind of irritated that poor arguements on this thread.

 

Did you you look who had the third worst qualified pitcher ERA and if so shouldn't this thread be about getting rid of 2 underperforming starters?

 

Tell you what....why don't you find me a metric that puts Correia anywhere near "good". Whatever you want to pick you might be able to show a bit of bad luck but still a bad starter.

 

He's not part of the future and not helping the present, I could care less which stats you want to pick out of personal preference, none of them are going to be a ringing endorsement for him.

[Craig Arko]

25 and 21 when someone else starts the game besides Correia? WOW! I doubt any of us were aware of that until just now. Any way you want to play it, that's a pretty bold number that's hard to argue with. Before I say any more, please let me be clear about two things.

 

1) I didn't hear Gardy's comments. I didn't hear the tone of his voice. I also don't know if he was upset, goaded, tired, or anything else. I only have the words to read.

 

2) Nothing mean or personal, but I don't want Correia pitching for the Twins.

 

That being said, I really don't understand any fuss made over Gardy's comments. Rather, I see reactions to his comments being interpreted by devoted and sometimes frustrated and impatient fans. I mean, really, break it down. What did he say that is in any way inaccurate?

 

Is Correia currently part of the rotation? Yes. Is he being paid to do so? Yes. Will he be paid even if the Twins cut bait tomorrow? Yes. All reality until otherwise. Defending a veteran and a nice guy? Maybe. Might also be a blunt motivation signal to Correia to earn his keep.

 

He's aware of the guys in AAA and where they are? God, I sure hope he is! If he isn't getting updates and scouting reports then there is a serious dysfunction somewhere. The guys in AAA have had their ups and downs? No matter talent, projectables and quality seasons, is there something disparaging in this comment? No. It's simply the truth about a group of talented youngsters, chiefly May, Meyer and Darnell in their first or full AAA action. About a month and a half worth of AAA to be precise. Simply reading boxes and TD game reports will show you there is greatness with at least a little inconsistency here and there.

 

Long term are these guys all probably better than Correia? Absolutely! No question! And I can't wait to see them! But as Duluth fan pointed out, the Twins traditionally make mid-season promotions for their prospects, sometimes later. Is pitching the balance of June, or so, going to do anything to damage the development of these guys? Or might they get more starts, more innings, smooth out some things, gain even more confidence?

 

After three lousy and disappointing seasons, the Twins are trying to build on that 25-21. They are in rebuild, and they know it. And they know Correia isn't part of the future. There will be promotions and changes coming. I think they are simply trying to be competitive best they can, continue to build something, and are hesitant to just jump ship and flail the remainder of the season by just plugging in young rookies for the sake of playing them. But more to the point, I simply don't see anything in Gardy's words that are inflammatory unless you want to read them that way.

 

I'd probably buy you a bottle of good mead to go with the steak dinner. Bravo.

[JB_Iowa]

Did you you look who had the third worst qualified pitcher ERA and if so shouldn't this thread be about getting rid of 2 underperforming starters?

 

I think there is a significant difference between eating the remainder of a 2-year contract when in the 2nd year and eating the remainder of a 4-year contract while in the 1st year.

 

Just the economic reality.

[beckmt]

Don't see the fuss. Either he turns it around or he doesn't. If he doesn't after the next 2 or 3 starts you go to option B. That would have him out of here around the end of the month and you have another 2 to 3 weeks to see which of the AAA starters should be promoted.

[The Wise One]

Tell you what....why don't you find me a metric that puts Correia anywhere near "good". Whatever you want to pick you might be able to show a bit of bad luck but still a bad starter.

 

He's not part of the future and not helping the present, I could care less which stats you want to pick out of personal preference, none of them are going to be a ringing endorsement for him.

 

Excuse me for thinking you were capable of putting forth a better argument to get rid of Correia. If not being part of the future is a criteria for being on the roster then get rid of 1/3 of the team. Don't bother to sign Morales. Cut Willingham now. Nunez, gone. Deduno is over 30, he is not the future either. Get rid of him, too.

If ERA is your criteria then you ought to be talking about getting rid of Nolasco for a while, too. Gardenhire can't rip on Correia because the prize free agent that will be paid for 4 years is performing equally bad. Micro thinking is not going to help anyone on this board view why the Twins are doing what they are doing. On the other hand, one could easily think that the under performing pitchers get a litle dl time so they can do a Pelfrey on them. It is not the Twins MO to rag on veterans.

 

As a back of the rotation starter both fip and WAR put Correia as a back of the rotation starter. That is what he was signed as, that is what he gives them.

[TheLeviathan]

As a back of the rotation starter both fip and WAR put Correia as a back of the rotation starter. That is what he was signed as, that is what he gives them.

 

 

He's 8th worst in xFIP. His .6 WAR makes him basically a replacement level player. When you're basically a replacement level player then you can default to other factors in replacing him....like any investment in him has zero payoff for the team. There is no long-term investment to make. There is no trade value to invest in. This isn't a good pitcher gone bad who needs time to sort it out. This is a bad pitcher gone worse and we have other replacement level guys we can try out and statistically have high odds of being at least slightly better.

[Circus Boy]

The FO isn't ready to eat the money they agreed to pay Correia and Pelfry -- both good clubhouse guys whose careers have hit the skids. We fans, however, are ready to make the changes now. Easy for us. It's not our money. But what the FO sometimes forgets is, it is our team. Let's hope they gets on the stick sooner than later.

[cmathewson]

The FO isn't ready to eat the money they agreed to pay Correia and Pelfry -- both good clubhouse guys whose careers have hit the skids. We fans, however, are ready to make the changes now. Easy for us. It's not our money. But what the FO sometimes forgets is, it is our team. Let's hope they gets on the stick sooner than later.

 

Sunk costs. You can pay a guy to keep him and help you lose, or you can pay him and let him walk away, to ultimately help you win. I think they're actually closer to doing the latter than Gardy's comments indicate. As I said earlier, I don't interpret them literally. "We're paying him big money to [give up six runs in five innings]" sounds like taking the party line with a twist of sarcasm.

[bird]

The thread topic was NOT about how crappy Correia is. Even I can decipher that, and I don't need a bunch of superfluous stats to help me out.

 

The question was about Gardy's comments. Some of you suggested he hold have essentially thrown the FO, and maybe Correia and indirectly Nolasco, under the bus, which he shouldn't do IMO. Some of you insist he threw the AAA starters under the bus. I've re-read his comment with an open mind to that notion, and find the comments matter-of-fact and completely innocuous in terms of that. And also accurate. May and Meyer look like they're both really close, but isn't May still a little wild? Hasn't Meyer been working hard on perfecting a new grip? I doubt these two would watch the video of Gardy's comments and feel they were criticized, unfairly or not, let alone thrown under the bus.

[cmathewson]

The thread topic was NOT about how crappy Correia is. Even I can decipher that, and I don't need a bunch of superfluous stats to help me out.

 

The question was about Gardy's comments. Some of you suggested he hold have essentially thrown the FO, and maybe Correia and indirectly Nolasco, under the bus, which he shouldn't do IMO. Some of you insist he threw the AAA starters under the bus. I've re-read his comment with an open mind to that notion, and find the comments matter-of-fact and completely innocuous in terms of that. And also accurate. May and Meyer look like they're both really close, but isn't May still a little wild? Hasn't Meyer been working hard on perfecting a new grip? I doubt these two would watch the video of Gardy's comments and feel they were criticized, unfairly or not, let alone thrown under the bus.

 

May has a 1.5 BB/9 this year, ballpark. He turned a corner in the fall league and carried that into this year. He's had a couple of clunkers. But that's par for the course. If he's not ready now, he sure doesn't have much more to work on.

 

Meyer needs a month to get more consistent with the change. But we're not talking about bringing him up just yet. Worst case, May gets five starts to sink or swim, needs a flotation device, and you bring up Meyer to replace him. Or Darnell, or Johnson, or Pinto.

 

If it was just about winning now and Correia was helping us do that, I could take Gardy's comments literally. But in the context of that night, when he gave up a four-run lead and only lasted five innings, what he said was inaccurate. You have to question his motives when you catch him deliberately deviating from the truth. I think it's a shot across the FO's bow. But there are many ways to twist and turn a Gardy rant.

[Circus Boy]

May has a 1.5 BB/9 this year, ballpark. He turned a corned in the fall league and carried that into this year.

 

Turned a corned in high school. Lot like circumcision. Couldn't walk for a year.