Article: No Room in the Rotation for Trevor May

[Shane Wahl]

6th worst xfip in all the majors.

2nd worst ERA in all the majors.

 

How bad would a pitcher, with only 4 months left on his contract, have to be to be bad enough to be replaced, if that isn't bad enough?

 

And of course if the Twins were willing to pay a significant portion of that remaining 4 million, they would dramatically increase the trade value for Correia.

[jokin]

You still have to get rid of someone. There are some guys in the minors that I would rather see up here, but this isn't a video game where you can trade/send down/cut players at will no matter how much we may want that to happen.

 

No one said send down at will, I said they could send down one of the relief guys with remaining options (and Gibson, should he implode, yes unlikely, but he still has options).

And they can choose to bite the bullet, Jason Marquis is a recent example.

[Otto von Ballpark]

And they can choose to bite the bullet, Jason Marquis is a recent example.

 

Good point. Marquis was actually cut at a really bad time -- no one was pitching well on that staff, we were already short 2 starters due to injury and demotion, Blackburn was almost equally as bad as Marquis, and there weren't really any good alternatives left.

 

That's an example of a time when you should hold on to every healthy pitcher you can. There were multiple likely points of failure and a lack of even interesting replacements.

 

By comparison, this year's Twins are a model of success and depth (thanks to Hughes and the 3-4 interesting names at AAA). I still wouldn't mind seeing Correia in a bullpen role -- outside of Hughes I'm not really sold on anyone quite yet, and Correia might actually be a nice asset in the pen as a true long man.

[cmathewson]

A. I wonder where the Twins rank since Pelfrey went down with the nerve problem. My guess is they've moved up.

 

B. I wonder where the Twins rank when they swap out Correia for May, which is only a matter of time. They want to get something for him, even if it's just salary relief.

[gil4]

And of course if the Twins were willing to pay a significant portion of that remaining 4 million, they would dramatically increase the trade value for Correia.

 

I wouldn't say it will dramatically increase the trade value. It might change a team from "we'll wait for you to release him" to maybe giving up a 30-yr-old AAAA CF in the Alex Presley/Darin Mastroani mold. I'd be shocked if we get more than that.

[gil4]

I wonder where the Twins rank when they swap out Correia for May, which is only a matter of time. They want to get something for him, even if it's just salary relief.

 

Salary relief would be great, although it will probably just go toward covering the lost revenue from the empty seats I've seen on TV. Still, the remaining part of the contract could make the difference between taking advantage of an interesting opportunity should it present itself and passing on it because of the expense.

[jokin]

Darren Wolfson @DarrenWolfson · 6h

Trevor May's last 4 starts for Rochester: 26 inn., 0 earned runs. #MNTwins official this a.m.: "Still not ready." Will be here eventually.

[cmathewson]

Darren Wolfson @DarrenWolfson · 6h

Trevor May's last 4 starts for Rochester: 26 inn., 0 earned runs. #MNTwins official this a.m.: "Still not ready." Will be here eventually.

 

"Still not ready" = "Clear path to the majors" per Rob Antony. Get rid of Correia and he suddenly could be ready.

[tmerrickkeller]

Move Deduno back to the bullpen, release Guerrier (who is also not part of the long-term plans). Bring up May with Matty's roster spot. I like Sam, too, but he hurts bullpens with short starts, and always makes short starts - quality short starts, but short.

 

Keeps potential starter in the bullpen and handy, showcases KC to maximize (any) value, gives May a shot, gives fans a new face to cheer for, and clears two hurdles - gets May up and gives a second path for Meyer when KC is gone. If May implodes, go back to Sam, and move up a reliever, or straight out swap Meyer for May, as we'd be past super-two by then.

[Mike Sixel]

Must move very slowly, cannot rush these guys. After all, if they have proved one thing the last few years, they know how to develop pitchers......plus, as I showed above, KC is not the worst pitcher in the league.....

[Mike Sixel]

Zero earned runs in for starts......

[jharaldson]

A. I wonder where the Twins rank since Pelfrey went down with the nerve problem. My guess is they've moved up.

 

 

They are 29th in starter ERA in March/April:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2014&month=4&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,a

 

They are 18th in starter ERA in May:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2014&month=5&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,a

 

These dates don't perfectly line up with Pelfrey but they are close enough to prove your point, removing a turd from the rotation helped and maybe removing another would bring us into respectability as a staff.

[70charger]

Move Deduno back to the bullpen, release Guerrier (who is also not part of the long-term plans). Bring up May with Matty's roster spot. I like Sam, too, but he hurts bullpens with short starts, and always makes short starts - quality short starts, but short.

 

Keeps potential starter in the bullpen and handy, showcases KC to maximize (any) value, gives May a shot, gives fans a new face to cheer for, and clears two hurdles - gets May up and gives a second path for Meyer when KC is gone. If May implodes, go back to Sam, and move up a reliever, or straight out swap Meyer for May, as we'd be past super-two by then.

 

This is exactly what I'd do. Where's the downside. Plus, if you can trade Correia at the deadline, you'll be able to slide Deduno back into the rotation, or better still, you could bring up another guy tearing up AAA.

[jokin]

This is exactly what I'd do. Where's the downside. Plus, if you can trade Correia at the deadline, you'll be able to slide Deduno back into the rotation, or better still, you could bring up another guy tearing up AAA.

 

Plus, following tmerrick's gameplan, moving MattyG out not only opens up a 25-man spot for May (who is already on the roster), he also opens up a 40-man spot for Meyer (or perhaps for another major league CFer, but that's for a different thread).

[SarasotaBill]

Super Two, Working on secondary pitches and FB command, AAA all star game, July Futures Game in MN, and trade deadline - all possible reasons to delay until mid-July or later.

 

Let's see May and Meyer have great Junes and discuss then.

[Mike Sixel]

So, having the probably better player in MN is not a priority? Some day that will be the priority in MN, someday.

[Dantes929]

Lets get rid of the garbage and give the fans something to be excited about. I agree 100%, worrying about depth and keeping more talented pitchers in AAA is exactly how you end up with the worst staff in the league for three years.

I am with you but it is harder after he just gave up a single run against the Yankees in his last start. Finally under a 6 ERA and trending down just makes it tough to cut him. He was pretty good for us last year which gives him a little longer leash. I think he earned another start. I said this yesterday that I fear that he will be just good enough for the Twins not to demote him but bad enough for the fans to want him replaced. I would say several good starts in a row would make him attractive trade wise and a couple more bad ones in a row will be enough to pull the trigger. The tough part comes when he throws a good game every other start. After a bad one you say ok, another one like that he is gone but then he throws a good game so you give him another chance and so on.

[Dantes929]

They are 29th in starter ERA in March/April:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2014&month=4&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,a

 

They are 18th in starter ERA in May:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2014&month=5&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,a

 

These dates don't perfectly line up with Pelfrey but they are close enough to prove your point, removing a turd from the rotation helped and maybe removing another would bring us into respectability as a staff.

Except it is trending down even without Pelfrey in the equation. Every other starter has a lower ERA now than at the end of April. Correia for example went from 7.33 down to 5.87. Not great but hard to demote guys that are trending in the right direction.

[jokin]

I am with you but it is harder after he just gave up a single run against the Yankees in his last start. Finally under a 6 ERA and trending down just makes it tough to cut him. He was pretty good for us last year which gives him a little longer leash. I think he earned another start. I said this yesterday that I fear that he will be just good enough for the Twins not to demote him but bad enough for the fans to want him replaced. I would say several good starts in a row would make him attractive trade wise and a couple more bad ones in a row will be enough to pull the trigger. The tough part comes when he throws a good game every other start. After a bad one you say ok, another one like that he is gone but then he throws a good game so you give him another chance and so on.

 

All fine and dandy. Except this wasn't a good start from Correia. And a series of the starts like yesterday's will be of interest to absolutely no one in negotiating a potential meaningful trade.

[drivlikejehu]

I must say, that is a truly novel argument - when a pitcher gets his ERA below 6.00, you cannot remove him from the rotation.

 

That's the great thing about a 7.33 ERA I guess... even one of the worst pitchers in MLB can improve on it.

[Thrylos]

I'm in the minority on this, but I'm kind of waiting for Deduno to, well, not last. Not that I want him to falter, but I still wonder if his shoulder can stay healthy for a whole season. The 'luck' our rotation has seen can't last even though I hope it does.

 

+1. Deduno has done nothing to prove he deserves a job in the rotation. Averages 5.5 IP/GS, less than 2 Ks per BB, has been regressing (6.75 ERA & .360 OBA the past 7 days, 4.91 ERA & .295 OBA the past 14 days and 4.50 ERA & .252 OBA the past 28.) Add the facts that at 30+ he is not part of the future and he has benefited from a ridiculous HR/FB ratio and I cannot see a way that he is taking a spot away from May.

 

Does he have a role in this team? Sure: Guerrier's...

[howeda7]

Corriea will be traded or DFA'd by 7/31 and an injury will eventually happen. Both will get their shot to make at least 10 or so starts at the Major League Level in 2014. I wouldn't get too anxious about it yet. The failure to use Pinto and Santana while here is far more disturbing.

[TheLeviathan]

Cut/Option Matt Guerrier. Correia finally finds that hole I've been looking for awhile with him - it's not as nice as I'd like, but the bullpen will do for now.

 

Call up Josh Brolin...er....May. Seriously...are we sure that isn't Brolin?

[matthew0211]

Anyone else have a problem with human beings being called "garbage" and "turds," no matter how inadequate they are as major league baseball players?

[Craig Arko]

Anyone else have a problem with human beings being called "garbage" and "turds," no matter how inadequate they are as major league baseball players?

 

Yup. Click the little triangle widget at the bottom of the offending post(s) to report them.

[Beezer07]

Anyone else have a problem with human beings being called "garbage" and "turds," no matter how inadequate they are as major league baseball players?

 

I highly doubt people are using those adjectives/nouns in any context other than their skills compared to other major league players.

[Brandon]

Except it is trending down even without Pelfrey in the equation. Every other starter has a lower ERA now than at the end of April. Correia for example went from 7.33 down to 5.87. Not great but hard to demote guys that are trending in the right direction.

 

Corriea had a 4.76 ERA in May. its moving in the right direction but still too high. I am fine waiting till the allstar break. After that I hope the Twins are able to find a way to get atleast one of Rochesters deserving pitchers up here.

[Thrylos]

Anyone else have a problem with human beings being called "garbage" and "turds," no matter how inadequate they are as major league baseball players?

 

Indeed

humans who think of other humans as "garbage" or "turds" or "less" based on some thing, like if that thing is male or a female or that thing's skin has A, B, C or D pigmentation or whether on can hit 500 ft HRs are "lesser" than humans who do not, are... (fill your adjective)

[TheLeviathan]

Indeed humans who think of other humans as "garbage" or "turds" or "less" based on some thing, like if that thing is male or a female or that thing's skin has A, B, C or D pigmentation or whether on can hit 500 ft HRs are "lesser" than humans who do not, are... (fill your adjective)

 

My my are we a sensitive bunch lately around here.

[h2oface]

It is certainly time to do whatever you can to remove Correia. Even the last game he pitched he pitched to a .375 batting average against. The Twins were quite lucky to only have the one run scored against him/them. I, for one, am not one to keep trotting (is it OK to refer to humans as trotting? I mean, horses trott to the two beat diagonal gait..... I don't want anyone to think I would be calling Correia a horse!) out a pitcher that gives me a lesser chance to win if I have better available and am 5-6 games back.

 

I would much rather have the call-ups be pitching toward the middle of their season and with a fresher arm, giving them a better opportunity to succeed, than waiting until they are almost thrown out for the year, and find they are all of the sudden pitching like Pefrey last September.

 

http://www.twinsdaily.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by tobi0040 http://www.twinsdaily.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png

Lets get rid of the garbage and give the fans something to be excited about. I agree 100%, worrying about depth and keeping more talented pitchers in AAA is exactly how you end up with the worst staff in the league for three years.

 

I don't see this as calling anyone garbage, but more of a metaphor, and a gentle one at that.