Revere trade revisited

[diehardtwinsfan]

Apparently, the folks in Philly are pretty tired of Revere. He hasn't progressed as liked and cannot keep an OBP over .300.

 

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/ben-revere-does-not-look-everyday-player

 

With that in mind, May is looking like he can be a solid mid-rotation arm, and while I won't argue on the Worley disaster, it seems so far like the Twins may have gotten the better part of the trade.

[Twins Twerp]

Ill agree...unless you add up Revere's web gems on Baseball Tonight. I am a Maybeliever.

[drock2190]

Twins finally did something right and traded a player when the value was the highest.

 

Normally, they like to trade low (Gomez, Hardy, ect...)

[Joe A. Preusser]

Twins finally did something right and traded a player when the value was the highest.

 

Normally, they like to trade low (Gomez, Hardy, ect...)

 

You're not in any danger of winning compliment of the tear for this one.

[kab21]

Let's not jump the gun on May yet. He has K'd a lot of hitters but he has a 4.44 ERA as a Twin. Revere OTOH is exactly who we thought he was. A marginal CF'er that only does two things well (hit singles and steal bases). And right now he isn't even hitting singles.

[jorgenswest]

The Twins took the risk side, but it is very hard to acquire starting pitching prospects. The prospect side is going to lose more often than win. However, winning by finding a starting pitcher is the bigger pay off. Given another similar opportunity, they need to pull the trigger again.

[Twins Twerp]

Let's not jump the gun on May yet. He has K'd a lot of hitters but he has a 4.44 ERA as a Twin. Revere OTOH is exactly who we thought he was. A marginal CF'er that only does two things well (hit singles and steal bases). And right now he isn't even hitting singles.

 

I would add his glove is pretty amazing as well. He has 3 plus tools and two 20 skills (on a scale of 20-80).

[kab21]

The Twins took the risk side, but it is very hard to acquire starting pitching prospects. The prospect side is going to lose more often than win. However, winning by finding a starting pitcher is the bigger pay off. Given another similar opportunity, they need to pull the trigger again.

 

I don't have a problem with the trade despite the pumpkin that Worley turned into but I think it's a bit early to call May a middle of the rotation starter.

[kab21]

I would add his glove is pretty amazing as well. He has 3 plus tools and two 20 skills (on a scale of 20-80).

 

His defense isn't that good (not a plus skill) since that article said the same things that were said about him while he was a Twin. Poor routes, good speed to make highlight catches and a noodle arm.

[clutterheart]

I really liked the trade when it happened. Less so after Vanimal flamed out. But I think of May's floor as a bullpen guy so if he could give a few good years in relief its a still a fine trade.

[jorgenswest]

I don't have a problem with the trade despite the pumpkin that Worley turned into but I think it's a bit early to call May a middle of the rotation starter.

 

I don't think anyone called him anything but a prospect. He appeared in the top 100 list and I believe was as high as the number 2 Phillie prospect. Starting pitching prospects are difficult to acquire and a risk that they will ever reach their potential.

[kab21]

I don't think anyone called him anything but a prospect. He appeared in the top 100 list and I believe was as high as the number 2 Phillie prospect. Starting pitching prospects are difficult to acquire and a risk that they will ever reach their potential.

The OP did.

[cmathewson]

I would add his glove is pretty amazing as well. He has 3 plus tools and two 20 skills (on a scale of 20-80).

 

I'd say he has one plus tool at this stage. Range is about a 30 at best. His hit tool is about a 40 at best. Speed is probably 60. Arm and power are 20.

 

He's a marginal center fielder. His UZR last year was -2.3. This year, it's already -2.0, his UZR/150 is -8.8. Apparently, the range is slipping with age. That, combined with a .591 OPS, and he's a huge liability. May doesn't have to be better than a fifth starter/long man for the Twins to win this trade.

[gunnarthor]

Twins finally did something right and traded a player when the value was the highest.

 

Normally, they like to trade low (Gomez, Hardy, ect...)

 

AJ, Buchanan, Span, Revere, Milton, Kelly, Knoblauch, Tyler, Keilty, Bullock ...

[gunnarthor]

Let's not jump the gun on May yet. He has K'd a lot of hitters but he has a 4.44 ERA as a Twin. Revere OTOH is exactly who we thought he was. A marginal CF'er that only does two things well (hit singles and steal bases). And right now he isn't even hitting singles.

 

ERA in the minors isn't all that important - it'd be a bit better with a little luck and/or better defense. Right now what's important is his ability to limit walks, which has been great since the AFL.

[diehardtwinsfan]

The OP did.

 

I think you may have misunderstood me here. May is a prospect, and as I said, he's looking more and more like he can be a solid mid-rotation arm.

 

I wouldn't call him a top prospect, and I didn't do this in my original post. May was at one time a top prospect in the Philly system, but he was already sliding when the Twins aquired him. In the end, I'm still rather surprised that the Twins managed to get both Worley and May for Revere. He was worth more than I thought he would be...

 

Regardless of how it turns out, it was the type of move Ryan needed to make.

[TKGuy]

While Revere would have allowed Hicks some more time in the minors, in the long run, both Philly and Washington not enamored with the CF they received from us

[gunnarthor]

While Revere would have allowed Hicks some more time in the minors, in the long run, both Philly and Washington not enamored with the CF they received from us

 

Yeah, I am really surprised on how poorly Span has been in Washington. I thought he'd hit better in the NL.

[Mike Sixel]

They clearly traded high on him. The question is open, imo, about whether they got anything for him, but May has been mostly encouraging....and I remain hopeful.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't care if May/Worley work out, this was a smart trade. It's unfortunate the Worley collapsed (figured he was a decent back of the rotation arm) but the writing was on the wall that Revere was, at his peak, a mediocre player.

 

And guys with his skillset rarely stay at their peak for very long. He literally has one tool, speed.

 

And speed is the most volatile of the tools, as it tends to disappear suddenly and without warning.

[tobi0040]

I don't care if May/Worley work out, this was a smart trade. It's unfortunate the Worley collapsed (figured he was a decent back of the rotation arm) but the writing was on the wall that Revere was, at his peak, a mediocre player.

 

And guys with his skillset rarely stay at their peak for very long. He literally has one tool, speed.

 

And speed is the most volatile of the tools, as it tends to disappear suddenly and without warning.

 

We knew, with 100% certainty that Revere was not a starting OF on a good team. Add on that we had at least two guys in our system that projected as a much better CF. And we got a starting pitcher with good numbers and a teams #1 prospect (albeit not a great system). I think Mays floor is a pretty good reliever, but it doesn't really matter to me how it all pans out. You do this deal seven days a week.

[oldguy10]

In the endgame why did the Twins take Revere as their first pick? I would imagine that many players taken after him in that draft turned out to be far more astute choices, am I correct or not in that assumption?

[gunnarthor]

In the endgame why did the Twins take Revere as their first pick? I would imagine that many players taken after him in that draft turned out to be far more astute choices, am I correct or not in that assumption?

 

Nope, he was a pretty good pick, actually. 28th overall in the first round but 13th in WAR so far. The 07 draft was a bit weak - the best players chosen in the first round after him were Todd Frazier, Josh Donaldson and maybe D'Arnaud. The big miss in the draft was Stanton falling to 76th overall (the Twins had the 28th pick and then the 92nd).

 

There was a lot of talk that Pohlad had put a low draft budget together and Revere (like Span) signed quickly and cheaply.

[iTwins]

Revere never really was going to be anything more than a 4th outfielder for a contending team. The Twins made the smart move and dealt him at peak value and managed to get (what seemed like) two useful pieces for him.

 

Of course, now we know that Vance Worley was a disaster and Trevor May still has some questions. Revere would have helped the Twins slow Hicks' development and would have kept this "Shorstops in the outfield" experiment from ever developing if he was still on the roster this year.

 

I think the Twins 'won' the trade initially - but neither team is probably happy with the overall value received (as of right now). If May develops into a back of the rotation arm - the Twins won this deal easily. If May doesn't pan out, it's basically a wash.

[Otto von Ballpark]

And guys with his skillset rarely stay at their peak for very long. He literally has one tool, speed.

 

I agree with your overall assessment of the trade, but Revere did have a .326 career MiLB BA, and was right around .300 in the full MLB seasons immediately preceding and following the trade. Coupled with his low K%, that's got to register as some kind of hit tool.

 

Actually, while his 2014 is definitely disappointing thus far, Revere is just 2 singles off of his career AVG entering the season, and only 5 singles off of his career high .305 AVG from last season.

 

Just a little Revere love, that's all. Like him, but glad my team didn't trade for him!

[oldguy10]

May I expand this thread to what other players we picked with our first one when other better options were available? I am thinking Chris Parmelee for sure, any other that just jump out?

[Mike Sixel]

I don't care if May/Worley work out, this was a smart trade. It's unfortunate the Worley collapsed (figured he was a decent back of the rotation arm) but the writing was on the wall that Revere was, at his peak, a mediocre player.

 

And guys with his skillset rarely stay at their peak for very long. He literally has one tool, speed.

 

And speed is the most volatile of the tools, as it tends to disappear suddenly and without warning.

 

 

I care. It is the scouts' and GM's job to get trades right. Anyone, literally, could trade Revere for nothing if they had the job.....they should be judged on whether or not the trade works to a large extent*

 

*their entire career should not be judged on one trade, that is clearly not what I'm saying....

[cmathewson]

In the endgame why did the Twins take Revere as their first pick? I would imagine that many players taken after him in that draft turned out to be far more astute choices, am I correct or not in that assumption?

 

That was Radcliff's last draft. He was known for drafting based on signability as much as (or more than) ability. Revere agreed to a $750K signing bonus, which was about half of those before and after him in the draft. He was not projected to go until the third round.

[gunnarthor]

May I expand this thread to what other players we picked with our first one when other better options were available? I am thinking Chris Parmelee for sure, any other that just jump out?

 

I don't remember Parmelee being a huge reach at the time. BA actually had a top 150 end of season that year and he was #150. In any event, I think the Twins were also kicking around Ian Kennedy at the time and he went one pick later.

 

Looking back on that draft and it ended up the worst Twins draft of the decade but it took a while for that to happen. Joe Benson made a couple top 100 lists, Valencia came in third in ROY voting just a few years later and Tyler Robertson really looked good for a bit in the minors. But none of them (and I suppose Parmelee still has time) really made the jump in the majors.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I care. It is the scouts' and GM's job to get trades right. Anyone, literally, could trade Revere for nothing if they had the job.....they should be judged on whether or not the trade works to a large extent*

 

*their entire career should not be judged on one trade, that is clearly not what I'm saying....

 

I mean that the trade was fundamentally solid from the Twins' standpoint and therefore it was a good one. They traded a one-tool player for a back-of-the-rotation arm and a minor leaguer with solid upside.

 

Sometimes, even the "best" trades don't work out as intended due to a myriad of reasons.