Article: Looking Ahead to Find a Shortstop

[Mike Sixel]

They do have a very good reason, they don't have a SS. If he doesn't want to move, don't do it. Just let him know that if Rosario proves he's legit this year, one of them will be dealt, and it might be him.

[Brock Beauchamp]

They do have a very good reason, they don't have a SS. If he doesn't want to move, don't do it. Just let him know that if Rosario proves he's legit this year, one of them will be dealt, and it might be him.

 

So now you're advocating that you essentially threaten one of your top hitters with a trade just as he's establishing himself.

 

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a clubhouse perspective, Mike.

 

Again, if the Twins move Dozier right now, then they have no second baseman. If Rosario doesn't come back strong, then they have no second baseman next year, either. You're essentially plugging one hole, jerking a guy around in the process, and potentially opening another hole in its place.

 

The logical course of action is to let things stand until you have more information on how to improve the team (ie. wait for Rosario to pick up a bat and play).

[jokin]

I don't care, he can't be worse than Floriman at SS (that is, the new 2B can't be worse than Floriman is a SS). The goal of a rebuilding team should be to understand what assets they have, and what they need to replace. Waiting for the offseason to move Dozier doesn't help that.

 

IF, at the end of the year, Rosario has not proven he's a 2B, and Dozier has proven he's not a SS, move Dozier back to 2B.

 

If Rosario is a 2B, and Dozier is a 2B, trade one.

 

If Rosario is a 2B, and Dozier is a SS, WIN!

 

etc....

 

Neither of you have addressed alternatives, both this year and going forward- Dozier may, or may not be able to switch to Short regardless of how Rosario plays out going into 2015. Filling the SS position, is, has been, and will be, the greater problem to solve, rather than the Dozier/Rosario debate at 2nd. There's still no guarantee that Rosario can play a major league 2nd, so let's take a moment and hold off on putting all of these carts before the horses.

 

So.....what are the alternatives at 2nd base, besides Rosario, should Dozier be able to stick at SS? Escobar, Nunez, Beresford, Polanco, Santana.....someone else?

[Brock Beauchamp]

So.....what are the alternatives at 2nd base, besides Rosario, should Dozier be able to stick at SS? Escobar, Nunez, Beresford, Polanco, Santana.....someone else?

 

It's my opinion that you leave Dozier at second and pursue a shortstop from outside the organization if Rosario isn't ready.

[Riverbrian]

I'm not moving Dozier... That play he made last night just cemented that feeling. His play at 2B is really special. When you have someone special... Let me keep being special.

 

If/When Rosario starts forcing the issue. Rosario is the one moves to another spot.

 

I'd bat Dozier in a different spot in the order but he's 2B in the field. He's doing stuff at that position that no one else is doing.

 

I agree that SS needs to be addressed for the future but please... no... not this way.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If/When Rosario starts forcing the issue. Rosario is the one moves to another spot.

 

The problem is that it's likely there is no other spot for Rosario.

 

His bat simply does not profile as a corner outfielder, particularly on a team that has Oswaldo Arcia manning left and will need to find a spot for Trevor Plouffe.

[Mike Sixel]

Neither of you have addressed alternatives, both this year and going forward- Dozier may, or may not be able to switch to Short regardless of how Rosario plays out going into 2015. Filling the SS position, is, has been, and will be, the greater problem to solve, rather than the Dozier/Rosario debate at 2nd. There's still no guarantee that Rosario can play a major league 2nd, so let's take a moment and hold off on putting all of these carts before the horses.

 

So.....what are the alternatives at 2nd base, besides Rosario, should Dozier be able to stick at SS? Escobar, Nunez, Beresford, Polanco, Santana.....someone else?

 

Rosario, Polanco, maybe Santana, maybe Goodrum....maybe some other guy. There is zero chance Rosario is a SS. There is a tiny chance Polanco is (though, he'd be up here faster as a 2B). There is a larger chance Dozier is. I fail to see the downside. If it doesn't work, move him back to 2B.

 

What is the out of org option, that could possibly be ready in 2 years, that they'd be able/willing to pay the price for?

[jokin]

Rosario, Polanco, maybe Santana, maybe Goodrum....maybe some other guy. There is zero chance Rosario is a SS. There is a tiny chance Polanco is (though, he'd be up here faster as a 2B). There is a larger chance Dozier is. I fail to see the downside. If it doesn't work, move him back to 2B.

 

What is the out of org option, that could possibly be ready in 2 years, that they'd be able/willing to pay the price for?

 

Just to be clear, I never said that Rosario was a SS option, the jury is still out if he's even a 2nd base option. My scenario involves the somewhat unlikely possibility that Dozier might be the long-term answer at SS.

 

In a perfect world, IMO, Dozier somehow becomes as good a fielder at SS as he currently is at 2nd, and Polanco is ready to take the spot at 2nd by May 1, 2015, followed soon by Rosario in LF. Not holding my breath on this, though.

[Brock Beauchamp]

What is the out of org option, that could possibly be ready in 2 years, that they'd be able/willing to pay the price for?

 

It's possible that Drew will be open to a one-year deal this offseason if 2014 doesn't work out for him. There are always guys available. They might not be great but they should be passable.

 

Or maybe you trade Plouffe. More than one way to patch a hole.

[Mike Sixel]

Never took your comment that way, my point remains: Their most likely SS in their system is Dozier. There were other ways to fix that this year, they chose not to, again. If they weren't willing to sign a Cuban this year, and weren't willing to trade for a SS this year, and weren't willing to sign a SS this year, why do we think they'd do it next year? Besides, any SS signed as a US FA will only be here 2-3 years, and you are back to having a black hole again.

[Mike Sixel]

It's possible that Drew will be open to a one-year deal this offseason if 2014 doesn't work out for him. There are always guys available. They might not be great but they should be passable.

 

Or maybe you trade Plouffe. More than one way to patch a hole.

 

What do you do after that 1 year, sign another 1 year guy? That seems like a bad plan.

[Brock Beauchamp]

What do you do after that 1 year, sign another 1 year guy? That seems like a bad plan.

 

It gives you another year to see if Rosario steps up while keeping Dozier at second.

 

Not every position needs to be filled with a long-term solution. There are always going to be year-to-year positions open as you wait on prospects, have prospects, fail, etc.

[jokin]

The problem is that it's likely there is no other spot for Rosario.

 

His bat simply does not profile as a corner outfielder, particularly on a team that has Oswaldo Arcia manning left and will need to find a spot for Trevor Plouffe.

 

With Plouffe's breakout season and Sano's injury, Trevor has probably bought himself this year and next at 3rd. Assuming he continues to rake, he becomes more expensive to employ, Sano needs a position, and thus, Trevor becomes more expendable to the Twins.

 

As much as I'd like Plouffe to be the Super-Util guy, Rosario would play at the minimum for 3-4 years, I would think they would look to move Plouffe.

 

Or....how about Plouffe at 2nd and Rosario in the OF? Plouffe as the Twins version of Neil Walker or Dan Uggla in his prime?

[Mike Sixel]

It gives you another year to see if Rosario steps up while keeping Dozier at second.

 

Not every position needs to be filled with a long-term solution. There are always going to be year-to-year positions open as you wait on prospects, have prospects, fail, etc.

 

I hate this idea so much it hurts. Holding down Rosario for another year, and him getting another year older, and the Twins getting no value out of him for another year. You still haven't said how to fix SS past that one year deal......if Rosario and Dozier are both 2B, and you have no SS in the system ready to come up.

 

question: If Rosario in CF and Buxton in LF works offensively, why doesn't Rosario in LF and Buxton in CF work, since that works better defensively?

[Brock Beauchamp]

I hate this idea so much it hurts. Holding down Rosario for another year, and him getting another year older, and the Twins getting no value out of him for another year. You still haven't said how to fix SS past that one year deal......if Rosario and Dozier are both 2B, and you have no SS in the system ready to come up.

 

question: If Rosario in CF and Buxton in LF works offensively, why doesn't Rosario in LF and Buxton in CF work, since that works better defensively?

 

Who is holding down Rosario? The guy isn't going to play a game for another month and his 2013 at AA wasn't terribly impressive. It's far from a given that he'll be ready this offseason or even the first half of next season.

 

And that's my point... There are too many variables in play right now to start making knee-jerk reactions to problems that don't yet exist or can't be fixed this season.

[Mike Sixel]

What is knee jerk about planning for the SS and 2B solutions in the future, by moving Dozier to SS and seeing if he can play it or not? If anything, I'm suggesting the opposite, plan for the future by seeing what you have or don't in Dozier, as opposed to making an uninformed decision about his ability to move back to SS in the offseason.

[Mike Sixel]

And, you suggested keeping Rosario in the minors all of 15, if I read your post correctly. That would be holding him down, if he is the potential AS 2B some here have said he can be.

[Boom Boom]

Move Dozier back to shortstop?

 

It could work I guess. He's done it before. It's not the Twins MO to do something like that, especially not to accommodate a rookie.

 

Bold prediction on the subject - if Plouffe continues to play well all season, the Twins will sign him to a contract and move Sano to a different position.

[Brock Beauchamp]

What is knee jerk about planning for the SS and 2B solutions in the future, by moving Dozier to SS and seeing if he can play it or not? If anything, I'm suggesting the opposite, plan for the future by seeing what you have or don't in Dozier, as opposed to making an uninformed decision about his ability to move back to SS in the offseason.

 

It's a knee-jerk reaction because Dozier is shaping up to be one of the top second basemen in the league and there are no other viable second base options. You're swapping one hole for another.

[Brock Beauchamp]

And, you suggested keeping Rosario in the minors all of 15, if I read your post correctly. That would be holding him down, if he is the potential AS 2B some here have said he can be.

 

Nowhere have I said anything about keeping Rosario in the minors for all of 2015. That has been my point all along... We have no idea what his 2014 will look like, much less his 2015.

 

Let the guy pick up a bat and swing it a few times. Then make a decision.

[Guest USAFChief]

What is knee jerk about planning for the SS and 2B solutions in the future, by moving Dozier to SS and seeing if he can play it or not? If anything, I'm suggesting the opposite, plan for the future by seeing what you have or don't in Dozier, as opposed to making an uninformed decision about his ability to move back to SS in the offseason.

I dont think "uninformed" is a fair term for Dozier's ability to play SS. He has an entire MiLB career and a MLB tryout from which to form an opinion.

[Mike Sixel]

It's a knee-jerk reaction because Dozier is shaping up to be one of the top second basemen in the league and there are no other viable second base options. You're swapping one hole for another.

 

I am relatively confident between Rosario, Polanco, Goodrum, and Santana that one of them can play 2B by 15 or 16. I am signficantly less confident one of them can play SS at all, but somewhat confident Dozier can.

 

I've made my points, you all don't agree. We'll see where we are next year, when they have no SS, and Rosario is ready, and Polanco is in AA tearing it up.....(I am sure my optimism about players in the system is throwing some of you off.... )

[Shane Wahl]

I would sign Drew (spending money, I know) and look to trade if he does well and the Twins aren't. That would help mitigate the loss of the pick.

 

I believe that I am in favor of another SS tryout for Dozier, given Rosario, Polanco, and Santana being able o play 2B. If it doesn't work, OK. Plan B. Or C, I guess. I am not convinced that Goodrum is done at SS though.

[kdrupp09]

I am relatively confident between Rosario, Polanco, Goodrum, and Santana that one of them can play 2B by 15 or 16. I am signficantly less confident one of them can play SS at all, but somewhat confident Dozier can.

 

So would you go ahead and have Dozier move to SS right now or do you play out the season as it is, then allow him the offseason to prepare to play SS?

[Willihammer]

Move Dozier back to shortstop?

 

It could work I guess. He's done it before. It's not the Twins MO to do something like that, especially not to accommodate a rookie.

 

Bold prediction on the subject - if Plouffe continues to play well all season, the Twins will sign him to a contract and move Sano to a different position.

 

Well Plouffe, like Dozier, spent most of his minor league time as a SS.

 

Sano used to be a SS too but you have to go back further.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I am relatively confident between Rosario, Polanco, Goodrum, and Santana that one of them can play 2B by 15 or 16.

 

And then you move Dozier. I'm not saying that Dozier shouldn't be moved back to short if he's open to it, I'm just saying that it's a decision that shouldn't be made right now because there's nobody ready to play second base. I don't see the point in making moves that could potentially disrupt one of your best hitters when there is nothing forcing the move.

 

There is no situation where the Twins become a better team in May of 2014 by moving Dozier to shortstop. The best case scenario is that they've rearranged deck chairs and receive the same performance from everyone. Worst case scenario, Dozier fumbles the position badly and it affects his hitting and the Twins are back to needing an all new middle infield.

[Mike Sixel]

So would you go ahead and have Dozier move to SS right now or do you play out the season as it is, then allow him the offseason to prepare to play SS?

 

 

I'd probably work with him for a month or two out of games (again, if he's willing) and:

1. See if there is a chance it would work

2. Prep him for the move

 

I don't like playing out the season, because then, well, you are going into next year with no SS again. My goal would be to find out, this season, if he can move back. You'll know with some certainty after 4-6 weeks of him praticing there, followed by 40-60 games of him playing there.

[Willihammer]

Answer: Move Plouffe to SS. Move Mauer to 3B. Sign Morales to play 1B.

[Mike Sixel]

IMO, Twins aren't winning anything this year.....I'm trying to be more ready for next year, Brock. You do open a hole at 2B this year, agreed. But, you learn if you have a SS or not for 2015. I also don't think Dozier is so frail that if he fails at SS, that he can't move back to 2B and succeed. But I could be wrong about that. I'll take that risk to see if he's a SS.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Or you could just ask Dozier if he's comfortable moving back to short. If he is, you pull the trigger on it either late this season (depending on Rosario's performance) or you give him an offseason to prepare for the move.

 

That's my preferred scenario -- no Dozier move without an interesting 2B replacement. (Meaning, no move right now, probably not until later this year or next year at the earliest.)

 

I'd hesitate to leave the decision fully up to the player, though -- that's how we get abominations like Joe Mauer's choice of walk-up song. Knowing baseball players, 90% of them would probably resist the move based on superstition alone. A good manager/executive should be able to gauge the move's potential effect on Dozier without giving him full veto power.