Article: Looking Ahead to Find a Shortstop

[jorgenswest]

Chief's opinion: In the minds of Twins management (both front office and dugout) Dozier is not a SS, and won't be moved back under except possibly to finish out a game in extreme circumstances.

 

This would be a reason to change management.

 

If Dozier can play SS, the Twins can't afford to close their minds to the possibility. Shortstops are much more costly to acquire than second basemen.

 

I would play Escobar through the all star break. If he isn't close to OK with the bat, give Dozier a shot following the break.

[Brandon]

What we should do

Sign Drew now

What we should do with what we have

Send down Florimon and bring up Bernier let Escobar start

What we will likely do

5 players will start at least 5 or more games at SS this year and 4 will start 10 from Florimon, Escobar, Bernier, Santana, and Nunez

What team ownership wants us to do

Keep spending money despite the lack effort or assets to improve SS.

[Riverbrian]

Do not move Dozier... He's playing 2B as well as anyone right now. Lock him in... Rosario moves to another spot when he is ready.

 

SS... I wish I had the answer... I don't.

 

I'm against paying an extroaidanary amount of cash to acquire a good hitter by SS standards but an average hitter in comparison to all of baseball. I know we should draft best player available but I'm hoping its a College SS when our draft position comes around.

 

Until then... I'm hopeful that Florimon could start hitting .220 at least... and then I'll stop worrying about it.

[stringer bell]

I really dislike the idea of bringing up a 30+ career minor leaguer because he's had a hot 50 at-bats in AAA. I, too, would like to see what Escobar could do if he started five games a week for a month. It is interesting that after the long layoff, "regulars" Hicks and Florimon are riding the pine.

 

Long term, I'm not fond of any of the Free Agent SS candidates. I would much rather find a young guy who's about ready to a major league regular. I don't know most of the names, but I definitely think the team should add a young shortstop.

[Reider]

Chief's opinion: In the minds of Twins management (both front office and dugout) Dozier is not a SS, and won't be moved back under except possibly to finish out a game in extreme circumstances.

Because he is not...

[Trevor0333]

Because he is not...

 

Wasnt it something about Dozier being terrible going to 1 side but not the other, I can't remember which but it was noted in a Strib article by Len3 & that was one of the big reasons for his issues at SS & excelling at 2B.

[TheLeviathan]

I think a move back to short becomes a real option if he continues to hit. We can deal with subpar fielding if the guy is OPSing at .800 or even .750.

 

Not that Dozier is necessarily a subpar shortstop but it'll probably take some time to get him back up to speed at the position.

 

With that said, I don't want to see Dozier moved this year. He deserves the chance to get his feet under him and cement himself as a productive hitter before the team messes with his head at all.

 

I think you do it when you have an alternative at second. Since I doubt that happens before sometime next year at the soonest, I don't have an issue with that.

 

But if Dozier can play shortstop....then you make that move when you have an alternative. I don't care if that's a step back for him defensively, it is plugging a gigantic hole on this team.

[AHSaves]

Didi's line in AAA (only sent down because of Owings)

 

.278/.355/.443 - Almost half of his hits are XBH. 2 HR's 1 SB. K/BB isn't great.

 

MLB Career .252/.329/.365 - Not perfect defense but even Florimon has some E's.

 

At 24 years old I think he would be a great addition.

[DocBauer]

The Twins know the players far better than myself. Perhaps there is something about Dozier, despite playing SS his entire life, being drafted and developed as a SS by the Twins, that has them convinced that even now, past the inexperienced, rookie jitter phase, he simply can't play SS at the major league level. And if that is reality, I'm perfectly fine with that as he is/has turned in to an excellent 2B, and will probably continue to improve. But as Leviathan said, even if there is a slight regression with a move back to SS, I'm OK with that. Not saying move him today, that would be foolish. But next season or so, I'd have to consider it.

 

As to what we have now, I'm a little shocked that Santana, a young athlete with some offensive potential who has caught the coaches' eye, is being so quickly and easily dismissed by some so quickly. Can't we at least let him settle in and get some AAA time, at least, before we just dismiss him?

 

Polanco, if he be even a solid, consistent SS defensively, with his offense, would be tremendous. Early errors this season so far stink, but the season is still young. There are a lot of factors in development for any young player. Once settled and comfortable, we might see a big drop in errors, and far better fielding the balance of the season.

 

In the short term, I'm very glad to see Escobar finally getting a chance. At this point, I think you just have to pull the plug on Florimon as the every day option. Wish it hadn't played out this way, but it's reality. The team is on an upswing in talent and competitiveness. I don't feel a knee-jerk reaction today, or off season, to an aging player is the way to necessarily go. For now, I ride Escobar. Perhaps, by the second half, we have a youngster like Santana to take a shot.

[stringer bell]

That many errors is a red flag. More troublesome to me is Polanco's arm. I don't know if he has enough arm to be an everyday shortstop. Polanco looks like he could be a plus offensive player, but I really think his position will be second base.

[cmathewson]

I just don't see why you close one hole by opening another. How many second basemen have the Twins had since Knoblauch?

[halfchest]

I guess I think you start Rosario at 2B when he comes back, keep Santana and Polanco at SS in the minors this year and keep Dozier at 2B in the majors. Then depending on the scenario you have a few options. You consider moving Dozier back to SS over the offseason if you see Rosario as a legitimate major league ready 2B. You give Dozier the offseason to know about this move, prepare, and go into spring training with this plan. The other possibility is that Santana shows he deserves a shot at SS in the major and you go into this year with the plan of him taking over. The third plan is Polanco developing but understanding he is a year or two away and you will need some sort of backup plan. In this scenario you maybe go after one of the guys mentioned on a two year deal. If all of these things work out positively (Rosario, Santana, and Polanco looking capable) then well you have a nice embarassment of riches in middle infield prospects and you figure out what makes the most sense be it a trade, moving Dozier to SS or moving Rosario to a corner outfield spot to make room. Let's hope this is the problem and not a problem of still having no one for SS next year.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Maybe they can trade for this guy recently signed into the Cardinal organization...(scroll to the right side to see the sweet slash line).....signed through 2018 at $2M/yr.........

 

[TABLE=class: sortable stats_table]

[TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, align: left]Year[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, align: center]Age[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, align: center]AgeDif[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, align: center]Tm[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc, align: center]Lg[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc, align: center]Lev[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc, align: center]Aff[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]G[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]PA[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]AB[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]R[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]H[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]2B[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]3B[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]HR[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]RBI[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]SB[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]CS[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]BB[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]SO[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, align: center]BA[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, align: center]OBP[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, align: center]SLG[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, align: center]OPS[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]TB[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]GDP[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]HBP[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]SH[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]SF[/TH]

[TH=class: tooltip, align: center]IBB[/TH]

[TR=class: full]

2007

[TD=align: right]16[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

Villa Clara

CNS

Fgn

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: full]

2008

[TD=align: right]17[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

Villa Clara

CNS

Fgn

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: full]

2009

[TD=align: right]18[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

Villa Clara

CNS

Fgn

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: full]

2010

[TD=align: right]19[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

Villa Clara

CNS

Fgn

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: full]

2011

[TD=align: right]20[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

Villa Clara

CNS

Fgn

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: blank_table partial_table]

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: full]

2014

[TD=align: right]23[/TD]

[TD=align: right]-1.1[/TD]

Springfield

TL

AA

STL

[TD=align: right]20[/TD]

[TD=align: right]80[/TD]

[TD=align: right]75[/TD]

[TD=align: right]8[/TD]

[TD=align: right]23[/TD]

[TD=align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]16[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]19[/TD]

[TD=align: right].307

[/TD]

[TD=align: right].321[/TD]

[TD=align: right].520[/TD]

[TD=align: right].841[/TD]

[TD=align: right]39[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Missed the boat on Aledmys Diaz huh?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1) keep Florimon on the bench and Escobar starting at SS for the foreseeable future, maybe rest of the season.

2) Dozier is the second baseman, don't fix one hole by creating another.

3) Let Rosario develop at 2B, trade him for the best player available, hopefully a SS prospect.

[jorgenswest]

After 4-4 tonight, it is time for Every Day Eddie

[Reider]

The Twins definitely have to give Escobar more playing time. Here we are panicking over the SS position and we might just have a guy on the team right now who can get the job done at the plate, while still being pretty good defensively.

[TheLeviathan]

1) keep Florimon on the bench and Escobar starting at SS for the foreseeable future, maybe rest of the season.

2) Dozier is the second baseman, don't fix one hole by creating another.

3) Let Rosario develop at 2B, trade him for the best player available, hopefully a SS prospect.

 

Not all holes are created equal. SS is a far more difficult position to fill and one the Twins have absolutely nothing in line to even be an option. With Rosario at least there is a chance.

[freshinthehouse]

I still think Dozier deserves another crack at it. His defensive numbers weren't that bad at SS in 2012, and he looks a lot more comfortable in the bigs now. Probably not worth it until we get an interesting option to play 2B in his place -- maybe Rosario? Would have liked adding one of those Cubans.

 

Agreed. I think the offensive potential of a Dozier/Rosario middle infield is great enough that you have to at least give it a try.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Not all holes are created equal. SS is a far more difficult position to fill and one the Twins have absolutely nothing in line to even be an option. With Rosario at least there is a chance.

True, but history suggests Dozier hits and fields very we'll as a 2b and doesn't at SS. I know, I know, SSS, but I think that the combination of Dozier-Rosario will be worse, than the combination of Escobar-Dozier in terms of the sum of runs allowed and runs scored. I do think that a package can be made with Rosario that could net the Twins a true long term solution at SS and be able to keep a very strong Dozier at 2b.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Not all holes are created equal. SS is a far more difficult position to fill and one the Twins have absolutely nothing in line to even be an option. With Rosario at least there is a chance.

Have the Twins previous to Dozier been able to fill the relatively easy to replace 2b? Gotta love that Brendan Harris - Nick Punto combination up the middle.

[Brock Beauchamp]

True, but history suggests Dozier hits and fields very we'll as a 2b and doesn't at SS. I know, I know, SSS, but I think that the combination of Dozier-Rosario will be worse, than the combination of Escobar-Dozier in terms of the sum of runs allowed and runs scored.

 

I think it's way too early to make such a call. If Rosario comes back and OPSes at .700 in New Britain, then yeah. Dozier/Escobar might be a better solution.

 

If Rosario comes back and OPSes at .800 while continuing to polish his defense at second base, then it's likely that Dozier/Rosario is the better option.

 

As I said earlier, this is a decision that just doesn't need to be made now or any time soon. Everything hinges on what Rosario does in the second half of 2014.

[cmathewson]

The Twins definitely have to give Escobar more playing time. Here we are panicking over the SS position and we might just have a guy on the team right now who can get the job done at the plate, while still being pretty good defensively.

 

This. I was hesitant looking at his career numbers. Perhaps last year was an abberation and he was due for a huge regression? Well, I think it shows that he's turned a corner. At the very least, he deserves an everyday shot for at least a month. Maybe he's the answer. We'll never know if don't give him a shot.

 

Now Fuld, on the other hand, is not the answer in center. Not everyday. Not every at bat. Especially not against lefthanders. But that's for another thread.

[DJL44]

I really dislike the idea of bringing up a 30+ career minor leaguer because he's had a hot 50 at-bats in AAA.

 

If they bring up Bernier it is to sit on the bench. I really dislike the idea of continuing to play a batter who can't hit. I suppose it doesn't matter which one sits on the bench right now.

[TheLeviathan]

Have the Twins previous to Dozier been able to fill the relatively easy to replace 2b? Gotta love that Brendan Harris - Nick Punto combination up the middle.

 

The Twins have been especially awful at filling the middle infield for a long time, there is no question about that. What makes SS more difficult is the availability of options around the league. At second base there aren't a lot of world beaters, but there are a lot of solid players. Just look around the league at shortstop and the depth behind it and you can see that it's not particularly deep right now.

 

To me, the Twins rushed Dozier off of SS after the disaster that was his first go at it. It shouldn't be completely written off, especially if Rosario (or someone else) would give them an alternative. To be clear, I wouldn't move Dozier unless someone forced the Twin's hand, but I don't like writing it off as an option either.

[Mike Sixel]

I disagree. I think they should move Dozier at some point this year, so they have more knowledge about whether or not they need to go outside the organization for a SS or not. If the plan is to move Rosario up to MN and move Dozier to SS in the offseason, what if Dozier can't handle SS....you now have two 2B, and no SS again. And you've lost another year at SS.

[jokin]

The Twins definitely have to give Escobar more playing time. Here we are panicking over the SS position and we might just have a guy on the team right now who can get the job done at the plate, while still being pretty good defensively.

 

What a difference a week makes. Here from April 25:

 

Florimon is clearly the one starter that is struggling the most at the plate. As long as the Twins are producing runs and are around .500, the team can afford to give Florimon some time to get it together. Based on the aforementioned, the Twins can easily give him until June 1st before making any major moves.

 

Did you actually mean to say May 1st?

[jokin]

I disagree. I think they should move Dozier at some point this year, so they have more knowledge about whether or not they need to go outside the organization for a SS or not. If the plan is to move Rosario up to MN and move Dozier to SS in the offseason, what if Dozier can't handle SS....you now have two 2B, and no SS again. And you've lost another year at SS.

 

Who would go to 2nd in the mid-season switch in your scenario, Mike? And could a fully-informed decision about a position switch come from Dozier playing 40-50 games at SS in Winter League ball, as an option to changing things in-season? (And I'm coming at this as someone who would like to revisit and explore the possibility with less than 50-50 confidence that it will pan out).

[Brock Beauchamp]

Who would go to 2nd in the mid-season switch in your scenario, Mike? And could a fully-informed decision about a position switch come from Dozier playing 40-50 games at SS in Winter League ball? (And I'm coming at this as someone who would like to revisit and explore the possibility with less than 50-50 confidence that it will pan out).

 

Or you could just ask Dozier if he's comfortable moving back to short. If he is, you pull the trigger on it either late this season (depending on Rosario's performance) or you give him an offseason to prepare for the move.

 

You could put a meat popsicle at short and if that popsicle OPSed at .800, you'd be doing okay for yourself.

 

If it doesn't work out, trade Rosario for a shortstop and move Dozier back to second sometime in 2015.

 

So many things need to happen with Rosario before this is an issue that I don't see the point in pushing forward with a decision right now. It seems a lot like making moves just for the sake of making moves.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't care, he can't be worse than Floriman at SS (that is, the new 2B can't be worse than Floriman is a SS). The goal of a rebuilding team should be to understand what assets they have, and what they need to replace. Waiting for the offseason to move Dozier doesn't help that.

 

IF, at the end of the year, Rosario has not proven he's a 2B, and Dozier has proven he's not a SS, move Dozier back to 2B.

 

If Rosario is a 2B, and Dozier is a 2B, trade one.

 

If Rosario is a 2B, and Dozier is a SS, WIN!

 

etc....

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't care, he can't be worse than Floriman at SS (that is, the new 2B can't be worse than Floriman is a SS). The goal of a rebuilding team should be to understand what assets they have, and what they need to replace. Waiting for the offseason to move Dozier doesn't help that.

 

Except that you're potentially screwing with the head of a guy who is one of the top three second basemen in the game right now.

 

It's my opinion that you don't do that to guys unless you have a very good reason to do it.