Alex Meyer Rerun or just showing More Consistency

[PseudoSABR]

Taken out of context? Deliberately obtuse?

 

I don't think anyone except "Mayday Malone" believes that Gausman or Meyer are going to come to the majors and perform at their peak level right away. And given Klaw's usual flippancy, I doubt that he believes "Mayday Malone" believes it, either. The Twins are currently 29th in SP ERA @5.32, the Orioles are 25th @4.45. Both Gausman and Meyer offer potential upgrades to the overall SP ERA averages, even performing well below their peak performance levels, and they offer the bonus potential to perform much better than that.

It's a direct quote from the chat log (I provided the link). Deliberately obtuse? How about the context of the small sample size of five weeks of baseball?

 

Law's known to rally against old-school philosophies that hold prospects back; that he directly answers the question with "No they don't [need these guys right now]" makes it clear that what ever upgrade they might provide doesn't constitute a need in Law's mind.

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't think service time is as big of a deal as unnecessarily burning an option. The Twins will want to have 3 options left after this season if possible. That means a late callup and September shutdown while in the majors.

 

Again, Meyer is an elite prospect. I think too many people are lumping him in with the run of the mill prospects that we've had come up lately.

Meyer should not be a guy who you worry about his options.

If you end up needing all 3 options for Meyer, something went horribly wrong.

[OldTimeTwinkie]

Why is it that Detroit calls up and starts the prospect they got for D Fister and he can fit in that starting rotation. The Twins supposedly got a better prospect in Meyer than Tigers got and we can't fit him into our rotation?

[jokin]

It's a direct quote from the chat log (I provided the link). Deliberately obtuse? How about the context of the small sample size of five weeks of baseball?

 

Law's known to rally against old-school philosophies that hold prospects back; that he directly answers the question with "No they don't [need these guys right now]" makes it clear that what ever upgrade they might provide doesn't constitute a need in Law's mind.

 

I looked at the link, what you posted was all there was to the exchange...... and it appeared that Klaw presumed a lot from the question that wasn't necessarily contained within the body of that question. And no one is basing their estimation of Meyer's major league readiness on 5 weeks of baseball. Besides an actual major leaguer's endorsement of Meyer's stuff ( from Will Middlebrooks....as opposed to Klaw's hitting credentials?)...... ZiPS projections sees him at pitching at a level that would make him the Twins 2nd best starter. Gausman's ZiPS numbers would make him currently tied for the 3rd best Orioles starter.

[DocBauer]

Once again, some great arguments for and against on both sides.

 

My $.50, or $1.50 with inflation, for what it's worth.

 

1) I believe Meyer is an elite prospect. No question in my mind he's at least a 2 if not an actual #1 pitcher down the road. If he didn't have his shoulder set-back last season, he might already be up. And he showed some very impressive things in the AFL, though he also showed a bit of inconsistency here and there in his delivery. But I was very impressed with what I saw. However, he did miss time last year. Time that was in AA, and probably prevented him from seeing time at Rochester. Remember this, as well as the fact that his impressive change up is just that, new. A few good starts, two outstanding starts that please and tease all of us, and then a hard-working so-so start. The minor leagues exist for a reason, for players, even top prospects, to learn, develop and grow. Please don't confuse his talent,potential, and some great performances early in the AAA season as being ready to dominate ML hitters. Just because his potential screams better than someone else's performance at the ML level, eventually, doesn't mean he's ready yet.

 

A few more starts, some more time to work on mechanics and this great new change up doesn't diminish his future. It just means a little more time to develop, polish, and gain even more confidence in his stuff and ability to get hitters out. His innings limit is not a big deal. It just means, if he continues on his currently high development curve, he's up June or July at the latest. Potentially. And if he gets his 10 or so starts, as speculated, and gets shut down around Sept, no big deal. He might even get a few outings in the pen to finish out the season. He's built his bridge toward next season's rotation. And when rosters expand, we just may have another pitcher or two to give a look-see such as May.

 

2) May and Darnell. Before the season began, May was one of the guys on my personal watch list. He has produced, he has gone through the minors rather quickly, and while some argue as to his results last season repeating AA, he did show improvement, and did finish well. Still, this seemed to be a big year to help him define himself. Thus far, I am greatly encouraged and feel the best may be yet to come. Darnell has been solid, ground his way up the ladder, and thus far, is having probably his best season. To me, the disappointing issue is his promotion. Perhaps he will flash and help, but I was actually hoping he'd stay down for a while to continue his development until given a SP opportunity. In fact, no disrespect to Johnson, perhaps use in Rochester precluded it, but I was really hoping Darnell was going to get the start as the 26th man recently.

 

3) The 40 man roster, especially as it refers to Meyer, is not a big deal. Why place someone there when you didn't yet have to so you could keep another player in your system, at least for a few months while the season began? When Meyer is ready, I say 3-5 additional starts if he keeps doing what he's been doing, there are players available for transfer or DFA. This is not a problem.

 

4) Pelfrey, Correia, 40 man, SP, FO, etc. There has been a shift in philosophy within the Twins organization this season that we haven't seen for a while, if ever. It began this past offseason with the dive into the FA SP market with Nolasco, Hughes, Pelfrey (say what you want to but there was logical thought there) and attempts for others such as AJ and Garza and other teasers. We could argue and debate back and forth about various subjects, but there was indeed an unprecedented shift in philosophy there. And so far, only a little over a month in to the season, there has been a greater sense of urgency to play with the roster. The status quo no longer seems acceptable as it may have been in the past. Again, I/we could debate that more should be done, but Tonkin has already been brought up, Nunez has been traded for, Fuld has been brought on board, Escobar has been moved in to the lineup as principal SS (or so it appears), Pelfrey has been DL'd due to a mysterious injury or poor performance. Unless he is traded at some point this season, Correia is gone end of year. (Same for Willingham) Say what you will about Pelfrey and his signing, who knows if he will rebound or not, he is only signed for one more year beyond this. Right or wrong, I understand the reasons for bringing him back. But regardless, considering the limitations of his salary and Twins' commitment, I don't believe they would fail to trade him for little or outright release him in favor of Meyer, May, Darnell or anyone else, including Deduno sliding full time back in the rotation.

 

Remember some of the sqwacking over money not spent? It allows the Twins to make trade moves or cut bait on someone that can be replaced by a ML min contract as well.

 

Thus far, our team is playing .500 ball. A lot of followers never expected this. It may be early, but, it's very encouraging. We've already had a few injuries. Some players have excelled and a few others have not, as of yet. The front office doesn't seem content to sit still. The Pitching levels out a bit, the hitters adjust a little up or down, it seems we might have an interesting a fun club to follow.

[diehardtwinsfan]

If you end up needing all 3 options for Meyer, something went horribly wrong.

 

I would agree with the sentiment, but things can and do go wrong. We had this debate about Sano last year. Had he been up on the ML roster, he' have wasted a year of service time this season, and even if they had already optioned him, he'd have wasted an option and then another one potentially recovering.

 

While I can respect that Meyer is an elite prospect, that doesn't give leeway for mismanagement.

[Mr. Brooks]

I would agree with the sentiment, but things can and do go wrong. We had this debate about Sano last year. Had he been up on the ML roster, he' have wasted a year of service time this season, and even if they had already optioned him, he'd have wasted an option and then another one potentially recovering.

 

While I can respect that Meyer is an elite prospect, that doesn't give leeway for mismanagement.

 

Sano got hurt before the season started. Had he been called up late last year (and stayed up all year), he would still have 3 options left right now.

 

You are right though, we should just never call anyone up, because you never know what could go wrong. I think we should leave Meyer in AAA for about 4 or 5 more years so that we can ensure team control through his age 35 season.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Sano got hurt before the season started. Had he been called up late last year (and stayed up all year), he would still have 3 options left right now.

 

You are right though, we should just never call anyone up, because you never know what could go wrong. I think we should leave Meyer in AAA for about 4 or 5 more years so that we can ensure team control through his age 35 season.

 

I don't look too kindly on intentionally misrepresenting what it is that people are saying, and this is a real good example of that.

 

No where have I said not to call him up due to risk. I have been clear in that what's best for Meyer isn't necessarily being in MN right now. I've also been clear that him being in Minnesota right now isn't necessarily in the best long term interest of the Twins either. I've been clear that 40 man concerns are very valid given that he's not on it presently, and that there are several other very deserving candidates who are on the 40 man presently who should get a shot prior to Meyer (all of which changes next year when Meyer has to be on the 40 man).

 

Sano is exactly what I'm referring to when it comes to risk, because if he had gotten the cup of coffee in September that some were asking for despite the fact that it was questionable that he was even ready, he'd be wasting a year of major league service time on the DL right now. When we factor in things like needing more minor league time and time to adjust to the majors, that lost year makes a huge difference on the competitiveness of this team long term.

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't look too kindly on intentionally misrepresenting what it is that people are saying, and this is a real good example of that.

 

No where have I said not to call him up due to risk. I have been clear in that what's best for Meyer isn't necessarily being in MN right now. I've also been clear that him being in Minnesota right now isn't necessarily in the best long term interest of the Twins either. I've been clear that 40 man concerns are very valid given that he's not on it presently, and that there are several other very deserving candidates who are on the 40 man presently who should get a shot prior to Meyer (all of which changes next year when Meyer has to be on the 40 man).

 

Sano is exactly what I'm referring to when it comes to risk, because if he had gotten the cup of coffee in September that some were asking for despite the fact that it was questionable that he was even ready, he'd be wasting a year of major league service time on the DL right now. When we factor in things like needing more minor league time and time to adjust to the majors, that lost year makes a huge difference on the competitiveness of this team long term.

 

Sano was 20 years old, and like you say it was fair to question if he was ready.

Meyer is 24 years old, and while there are valid arguments for bringing him up or keeping him down, I think he would be ready whenever he gets the call.

[PseudoSABR]

The development time line for each individual player is extraordinarily different. Pay less attention to age, and more attention to their progress at each level. Honestly, if Meyer's age is the lynchpin of your argument, it seems a rather glib effort. It's just nothing new for pitchers--especially college pitchers with injury history--to dominate the minors, yet not be ready (or trusted) to contribute to the majors.

[kdrupp09]

I am wondering what the Twins Daily community thinks, will Meyer be up by August 1? I am curious because Rochester plays near me in early August and if I could see Meyer in person I would make the trip.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I am wondering what the Twins Daily community thinks, will Meyer be up by August 1? I am curious because Rochester plays near me in early August and if I could see Meyer in person I would make the trip.

 

Hard to say. My guess is that either Meyer or May will be up before August 1st.

 

Which one it is depends on performance, strength, and 40 man roster space.

 

It's also possible that both are up by August 1st.

[kdrupp09]

Hard to say. My guess is that either Meyer or May will be up before August 1st.

 

Which one it is depends on performance, strength, and 40 man roster space.

 

It's also possible that both are up by August 1st.

 

Thanks Brock! I will just keep an eye on it and then decide.

[Trautmann13]

With the way the front office is working to 25 and 40 man recently, I would be surprised to see Meyer pitch in Minnesota in my lifetime.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I am wondering what the Twins Daily community thinks, will Meyer be up by August 1? I am curious because Rochester plays near me in early August and if I could see Meyer in person I would make the trip.

 

If they need starting help, I have to think that Johnson, Darnell, and May will all get the call ahead of Meyer at this point... If they all flop, then yes, you'll see him sooner than later. My gut says he's a September callup and starts in the 2015 rotation.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If they need starting help, I have to think that Johnson, Darnell, and May will all get the call ahead of Meyer at this point... If they all flop, then yes, you'll see him sooner than later. My gut says he's a September callup and starts in the 2015 rotation.

 

I'm not so sure... If Meyer continues to throw a clunker every 3-4 starts, yeah, he'll struggle to get to Minnesota.

 

But if he starts pitching consistently at a dominant level, I think we see him sooner rather than later, and probably by the end of July as Correia is shipped to, well... somewhere else, I don't really care.

[kdrupp09]

I'm not so sure... If Meyer continues to throw a clunker every 3-4 starts, yeah, he'll struggle to get to Minnesota.

 

But if he starts pitching consistently at a dominant level, I think we see him sooner rather than later, and probably by the end of July as Correia is shipped to, well... somewhere else, I don't really care.

 

I agree, look what we heard all year last year with Gibson, he needs to be more consistent, more consistent. Which is likely what the Twins are looking for out of Meyer and also May.

[joeboo_22]

It depends what they need, there is no real reason to call up Meyer for 1 or 2 starts. At the same time if they say good buy Correia or say Pelfry your going on an extended vacation to the bullpen or wherever then its a different story.

 

I still say I'd give May the shot first, the reason being we have to see what he is. If he obviously can't cut it, send him back down and make him a reliever, I don't want this Hendricks stuff where we basically lose a potential starter because we are stubborn.

[Mr. Brooks]

I agree, look what we heard all year last year with Gibson, he needs to be more consistent, more consistent. Which is likely what the Twins are looking for out of Meyer and also May.

 

 

Correia is not consistent (except maybe consistently bad), why is he in the rotation?

[John Kelsey]

Pretty impressive outing today. 5 IP, no hits and 7 Ks. Unfortunately that came with 4 walks.

 

He only threw 79 pitches though, not sure why they took him out so quickly.

[Twins33]

He's on a strict pitch count.

 

Rotoworld quote:

 

Twins assistant general manager Rob Antony said Friday that the team plans to limit Alex Meyer's pitch counts this season.

 

They want to let Meyer pitch the entire season without shutting him down, but will be very cognizant of his workload in each outing. Antony said that Meyer could wind up finishing the season in the bullpen.

[DJL44]

My original comment was about adding Meyer to the 40 man roster for one game and immediately sending him back down. You don't burn an option to make someone a spot starter in a doubleheader if you can help it. Meyer will be added when he's expected to stay on the roster.

[jokin]

He's on a strict pitch count.

 

Rotoworld quote:

 

Twins assistant general manager Rob Antony said Friday that the team plans to limit Alex Meyer's pitch counts this season.

 

They want to let Meyer pitch the entire season without shutting him down, but will be very cognizant of his workload in each outing. Antony said that Meyer could wind up finishing the season in the bullpen.

 

Hopefully, that's in the Twins bullpen. (Gardy might get his Spring Training wish after all).